neh
Collection of short stories published by an independent editor
"I live in two worlds; one is a world of books"
Posts: 943
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Post by neh on Jun 13, 2007 18:55:08 GMT -5
Oooh, good work guys!! *claps* This was discussed, albeit from a different angle and for a different reason, in the book i'm reading at the moment entitiled "What Will Harry Do?". It more so raised the question of Harry not going back to Hogwarts for his final year and as such being of age but not QUALIFIED as a wizard and whether this will be a detriment to his defeating Voldy. It was highlighted that both the Weasley twins and Hagrid are of-age and "un-qualified" yet still practise magic and do so well (especially the twins). It's interesting indeed to note, as you guys have so rightly done, that none of these individuals seem to be getting in trouble for this - i mean, Fred and George left school without graduating/qualifying and yet are still going about invetning magical do-whakies and to an even greater extent, as the many products in their shop reveal - so why haven't they been tracked down and given a good smack for being such naughty boys??? BIZARRE! I will look up other interesting things raised in the book today and list them, coz there actually have been some that have really caught me off-gaurd and made me ponder.
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zeldafitzgerald
Collection of short stories bought by Random House
ancora imparo
Posts: 1,948
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Post by zeldafitzgerald on Jun 13, 2007 20:41:58 GMT -5
Awesome! Looking forward to hearing what you find, Neh! I've also been thinking a little more about Hagrid - and I thought of some ideas. Perhaps Dumbledore was involved in the turning of the umbrella into a working, restored wand. Dumbledore certainly seems capable, and he knew Hagrid was innocent. Plus - Hagrid was in the original Order of the Phoenix - Dumbledore certainly would not have wanted him fighting the Death Eaters without a wand. He trusts Hagrid, and would have instructed him to only use it when necessary. Hagrid also does many important things for Dumbledore - taking Harry to the Dursleys, Picking Harry up in book 1, getting the Sorcerer's Stone, etc. So that's just a theory about Hagrid - still doesn't explain the others! The issue of wands also makes me wonder - if they can tell that Harry's wand was being used (and the exact spell it preformed)- wouldn't they be able to track Voldemort's and see that it WAS being used? There is, of course, an easy answer to this. Voldemort is one of the most powerful wizards and could probably do something to make his wand undetectable. But still - what about all the Death Eaters? Did Voldemort do something to their wands too? If not, wouldn't the ministry of magic know that it was Peter Petigrew's wand that murdered that day - and not Sirius? (and what about the spell they used at the World Cup to find out who conjured the Dark Mark? The spell that shows the last spell a wand performed. Why was that not used in the case of Sirius and Wormtail? The question of wands and their uses and detection has been heavy on my mind today.
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Michelle
First novel published
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Post by Michelle on Jun 13, 2007 23:02:22 GMT -5
This is all very big brother. I bet there's a privacy issue (says the future lawyer). Maybe they only track underage wizards. Or maybe it's not the wand that they track per se. I don't know...
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neh
Collection of short stories published by an independent editor
"I live in two worlds; one is a world of books"
Posts: 943
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Post by neh on Jun 13, 2007 23:14:27 GMT -5
I think - and certainly hope - that book 7 may grant us some answers or at least hints as to these wand issues, primarily because, as of the start of book 6, the Death Eaters have someone very knowledgable in their grasp - Ollivander (and note, as my book reminded me, that the great wand-maker seemed to have been 'taken' without struggle, whereas Fortesque's ice cream store - sniff sniff, what a nice bloke, the poor sod - was in a mess because he put up a fight.... humdiddles... what side is Olli really on, hmm???) Can he give us more exacts specifications concerning wands, in particular Voldy's and Harry's and the whole Priori Incantantum (sp.?) issue? ?? As zelda spoke of Hagrid and DD's trust in him, it reminded me of something else questioned in my book: WHY did DD trust him so much? (of course, this question is even more important regarding relations with a certain hoo-nosed enigmatic moron) WHAT did he see the night of Voldy's downfall (remember, he and Sirius were the first on the scene after the attack) WHEN we he truly prove himself in all his fierce loyalty and WHEN will Haz realise that this big bloke may in fact have some key info concerning his folks??? ASK SOME QUESTIONS HAZ, DAM YOU!!!! I swear, if the kid doens't start thinking - i mean, really thinking - soon, i'm gonna jump through the pages and slap some sense into him.
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Isa
Administrator
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Post by Isa on Jun 15, 2007 7:46:39 GMT -5
In other magical stories, the veil is what separates other "realms." So I guess heaven could be a realm that Harry is hearing, or just someplace that you go once you are done with this life (which I guess would be what people could define as heaven, but...). Sorry to go back to something that's been posted a while ago, but the more I think of it, the more the whole Halloween/veil thing makes sense. The world Halloween comes from "All Hallows Eve", or the day before All Saints Day (Nov 1), and I found this definition: "Many European cultural traditions hold that Halloween is one of the liminal times of the year when spirits can make contact with the physical world and when magic is most potent". So deathly hallows could mean "deathly saints", and this could very well refer to the people behind the veil...
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Michelle
First novel published
Posts: 2,563
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Post by Michelle on Jun 15, 2007 11:17:08 GMT -5
That's a very interesting and intriguing theory. I like it...
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sagedautumn
Collection of short stories bought by Random House
You Might Need This!
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Post by sagedautumn on Jun 15, 2007 14:51:15 GMT -5
Also, Voldemort was born on Dec. 31 which is known as the ending of the new year.... Anyone see the cover for HP7 Deluxe Edition??? There is a dragon that people are thinking is either Norbert the dragon or an Antipodean Opaleye, a dragon with opal eyes (see cover) that resides in new zealand. It was mentioned in Fantastic Beasts by J.K....
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neh
Collection of short stories published by an independent editor
"I live in two worlds; one is a world of books"
Posts: 943
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Post by neh on Jun 15, 2007 19:50:29 GMT -5
Yes, the Kiwis have the purtiest and indeed most gentle of the dragons.... in fact, it sometimes comes up here to Aus to graze on our sheep (although why there'd ever be a shortage of those in NZ, I can't fathom... but i don't want to make mean, stereotypical Kiwi jokes, hehe!) But on a random note, i love that Jo wrote those two mini info books. I personally would love some more - Hogwarts, a History for example. Make Hermy proud! The whole veil/Hallows thing certainly sounds like it's on the right track.... and considering that the murder of Haz's parents and Voldy's downfall all took place on Halloween... and it's always been on occassion on which significant events have happened, canon-wise... i really dread this year's (book 7's) Halloween!!!
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Lu
Administrator
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Post by Lu on Jun 16, 2007 4:12:03 GMT -5
In other magical stories, the veil is what separates other "realms." So I guess heaven could be a realm that Harry is hearing, or just someplace that you go once you are done with this life (which I guess would be what people could define as heaven, but...). Sorry to go back to something that's been posted a while ago, but the more I think of it, the more the whole Halloween/veil thing makes sense. The world Halloween comes from "All Hallows Eve", or the day before All Saints Day (Nov 1), and I found this definition: "Many European cultural traditions hold that Halloween is one of the liminal times of the year when spirits can make contact with the physical world and when magic is most potent". So deathly hallows could mean "deathly saints", and this could very well refer to the people behind the veil... That's very interesting! I'd love a book about hystory of Hogwarts, it'd be amazing, I really hope Jo will write it!
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Isa
Administrator
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Post by Isa on Jun 16, 2007 17:07:48 GMT -5
If I remember correctly, somwhere in HP books they say that ministery can "see" only where and not who do the magic, so why haven't hagrid got a letter when he used his wand/umbrella in 1st book? (When he went to give Harry his letter from Hogwarts) I agree with memccart. I just came upon the passage where DD explains how it works in HP6. Harry says: "I thought they could detect under-age magic!" and DD replies: "You are quite right - they can detect magic, but not the perpetrator". It's in the chapter called "A Sluggish Memory".
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neh
Collection of short stories published by an independent editor
"I live in two worlds; one is a world of books"
Posts: 943
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Post by neh on Jun 16, 2007 18:53:04 GMT -5
*Neh breaks into applause* Brava! Brava Jefie! Very good find!!!!
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Isa
Administrator
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Post by Isa on Jun 16, 2007 22:13:55 GMT -5
lol, it helps that I'm re-reading the books!
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Lu
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Post by Lu on Jun 17, 2007 4:47:39 GMT -5
If I remember correctly, somwhere in HP books they say that ministery can "see" only where and not who do the magic, so why haven't hagrid got a letter when he used his wand/umbrella in 1st book? (When he went to give Harry his letter from Hogwarts) I agree with memccart. I just came upon the passage where DD explains how it works in HP6. Harry says: "I thought they could detect under-age magic!" and DD replies: "You are quite right - they can detect magic, but not the perpetrator". It's in the chapter called "A Sluggish Memory". That's the passage I meant thanks Jefie!
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zeldafitzgerald
Collection of short stories bought by Random House
ancora imparo
Posts: 1,948
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Post by zeldafitzgerald on Jun 17, 2007 20:24:33 GMT -5
Ok - here's an amazing thought about Horcruxes that my mom thought of. I'm going to describe her discoveries here, and then please comment! (I told her how awesome all of you are and that'd we'd get to the bottom of this and I'd tell her what we said about the matter.) I don't think this has specifically been discussed here, but I could have missed it.
In book 6 Dumbledore tells Harry that he believes Voldemort wants to use a object from each of the founders of the school as horcruxes. (page 505) He also says that he believes that's why Voldemort tried to get a job at the school - to search it for objects. Dumbledore also tells Harry that the only known relic from Gryffindor is his sword, which is well protected.
HOWEVER! In book 4 (page 176) the sorting hat says: "'Twas Gryffindor who found the way, he whipped me off his head" This means that the sorting hat belonged to Gryffindor and is a relic of him!
And also in book 6 (page 446) when Voldemort is in Dumbledore's office asking for a job - Harry notices that his hand had twitched toward his pocket and his wand. Tom knew he would be denied, so he must have had some reason to want into Dumbledore's office. Could this have been when he did it?
So what do you all think? Do you think the sorting hat could be a Horcruxe? If so, does that mean Dumbledore was wrong? How could he have not known that the sorting hat was Gryffindeor's?
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neh
Collection of short stories published by an independent editor
"I live in two worlds; one is a world of books"
Posts: 943
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Post by neh on Jun 18, 2007 0:44:49 GMT -5
This is an interesting theory for sure, but i just don't know if it can be. DD knows the Sorting Hat was Gryffindors, i believe - but then, that's just a hunch. Either way, i think the hat being a horcrux theory is certainly valid but probably unlikely, because DD makes certain to say with regards to Nagini, that it is very unwise to purposely make a Horcrux out of something that can think and speak for itself. Now, this doesn't so much apply to the snake, because with the aid of Parseltongue Voldy has control/trust of her anyway, but it would certainly apply to both the theory (that i really like but am becoming worried may not be) of Harry being a Horcrux AND the Sorting Hat being one. The Hat can very clearly think for itself and i can't see how it would be carrying a piece of Voldy's soul without it knowing this - and as it feels it's duty is to provide warning to the sschool, i imagine it would want to warn someone of such a presence in itself - plus, seeing as it resides in his office, i can't imagine DD noy detecting it's presence once his search for the objects began. One thing that remains interesting and perhaps a supporting factor of the theory is something that Jo said all the way back in 2000: "There is more to the Sorting Hat than what you have read about in the first three books," Rowling says. "Readers will find out what the Sorting Hat becomes as they get into future books." Now this may well have been referring to it's obvious somewhat political calls for peace and cooporation in books 5/6, but who knows? ?
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