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Post by Carma on Jul 30, 2008 4:57:44 GMT -5
The other question still stands, but it is also time for the next section: 21. How different are the motives of Mrs. Elton in taking up Jane Fairfax and Emma in improving Harriet Smith? And why was Emma so determent that Harriet should be improved?I really love this book!
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Post by pixie on Jul 30, 2008 6:06:54 GMT -5
21. Mrs. Elton wanted to show off her privileges and high connections by helping Jane Fairfax. She wanted to be associated with taking up someone as smart and achieved as Jane. She thought that this would put her in a high rank in the Highbury society. She said somewhere that it was her duty and others like her to help young achieved ladies such as Jane. Emma, on the other hand, thought that she was helping Harriet for Harriet's sake but she was actually doing it to entertain herself and for the joy of completing her project 'improving Harriet'. Emma was determined to improve Harriet because she didn't want to fail in her project. She didn't want to be wrong about Harriet.
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Lu
Administrator
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Post by Lu on Jul 30, 2008 8:29:00 GMT -5
20. At first I thought class was treated very differently by the outsiders, especially after Frank Churchill asked Emma why they never do balls at Crown Inn, and after seeing the way Mrs.Elton behaved with the Woodhouses. Anyway I think that Frank just enjoyed socialising and acted like his father would and that Mrs.Elton...well, she's just Mr.Elton's wife! I hate the way they behaved toward Harriet at that ball at Crown Inn! I saw a difference between their behaviour and Emma's for the way they considered the Coles (and their invitation to dinner), for example. Emma considered social mobility as pretemptuos. She also felt her responsibility towards lower classes, but I think not as much as Mr.Knigthley did, I think his idea was shown clearly also after the Box Hill trip, when he scolded her for the insult to Miss Bates. I do think class is important for the story, in situation like Mr.Elton's proposal to Emma or for the role of a character like Mrs.Elton. I hope this answer makes sense.. 21. I agree with pixie. I'm not sure Emma was determined to improve Harriet just becaise she didn't want to fail in her project...perhaps she really want to be useful to Harriet...and she never forgot to bring her to a ball at least, like the Eltons that prmised Miss bates and Jane to bring them with their carriage and then forgot about them! Anyway, I agree that she was helping Harriet to entertain herself, I had the impression Emma had less time to dedicate to her improvement plan while frank was in Highbury. I love this book too, I really like this section (and I know I will like the next one as well). I found interesting that Emma didn't like Mrs.Elton because she's too familiar, I guess that helped her to see Jane's reserve under a more favorable light I mentioned I really like Mr.Woodhouse, a good quote by him: I am very sorry to hear, Miss Fairfax, of your being out this morning in the rain. Young ladies should take care of themselves.Young ladies are delicate plants. They should take care of their health and their complexion. My dear, did you change your stockings? haha Mr. Woodhouse is so cute.
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Michelle
First novel published
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Post by Michelle on Jul 30, 2008 18:37:05 GMT -5
I just wanted to post and say that I actually finished a section on time. But my brain is way too tired from my exam so I don't really have anything to add to the conversation - so I guess it was pointless that I'm on time...
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Post by pixie on Jul 30, 2008 18:51:07 GMT -5
Glad you catched up Michelle
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Lu
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Post by Lu on Jul 31, 2008 0:47:03 GMT -5
I just wanted to post and say that I actually finished a section on time. But my brain is way too tired from my exam so I don't really have anything to add to the conversation - so I guess it was pointless that I'm on time... Your brain definitely deserves some rest Here's another question: 22. Why does Emma insult Mrs. Bates during the Box Hill outing? Why does she realize how hurtful it was only after Mr. Knightley confronts her?
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Michelle
First novel published
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Post by Michelle on Jul 31, 2008 8:32:45 GMT -5
I think Emma is just still growing up and learning. She says that just because she could and it probably would have just been funny if they were equals but Mr Knightly points out that Emma owes her more because of her lower station in life.
I think the Mr. Knightly and Emma relationship had been different the past year because she was becoming a better person and he could admire that. This slip brings them back to there old relationship where he is the more mature one and she still has things to learn from him. I'm not really sure what the point of it is though. Maybe a reminder of how much Emma values his opinions?
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Post by Carma on Aug 1, 2008 11:05:25 GMT -5
20. I think live in Highburry was a bit different from social lives in other parts of the country. like Lu said, Frank asks why there are never balls. I think because of that, outsiders stumble into a whole different live, and they aren't used to that. 21. I think Emma wanted to improve Harriet, because then she'd have something to do, but also because she wants to help people. and I think that mrs elton wants to improve jane to show off what she is capable to do... so I agree with what has been said before 22. I agree with Michelle. She was probably lost in the way she was talking to frank churchill and she just blurted it out. She probably tought it was ok, since they saw ms Bates a lot, so it didn't occur to her that her higher rank might make her comment harsh. I think Emma doesn't realize she is of a higher rank....
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Lu
Administrator
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Post by Lu on Aug 1, 2008 13:54:52 GMT -5
22. I agree with Michelle. She was probably lost in the way she was talking to frank churchill and she just blurted it out. 22. I agree too. I had the impression that Emma felt like she deserved what Mr.Knightley told her, more than other times (at least in the book). I was wondering how old was Miss Bates..is that said anywhere in the book? Another question from Carma and me 23. Do you think Emma learnt anything from the Harriet-Mr.Elton fiasco?
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Lu
Administrator
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Post by Lu on Aug 4, 2008 6:48:41 GMT -5
Ok, I'm answering question 23: I do think Emma learned something, though not as much as she should have, and she herself intended to. I mean, she found another suitable match for Harriet, and planned they would end up together. She only learned not to have an active role in bringing them together, or not as active as she did with Mr.Elton and Harriet. Apparently she learned something else: 18. I had not a spare moment on Tuesday, as you know, for Miss Woodhouse's beautiful little friend. Pray make my excuses and adieus to her.' This, Emma could not doubt, was all for herself. Harriet was remembered only from being her friend. 24.What might motivate someone to try to arrange the romantic relationships of another person?(Carma and I would really like to know everyone's opionion about that )
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Post by Carma on Aug 4, 2008 7:56:57 GMT -5
ok, 23: I also think Emma learned something from it. exactly like lu says, she is still planning on seeing haariet end up with someone, but she doesn't have an active role in it. she tries to stay away from interfering I'll leave 24 open for others to reply first
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Post by Carma on Aug 5, 2008 7:56:07 GMT -5
I was wondering how old was Miss Bates..is that said anywhere in the book? I'm not sure actually... late 30s? early 40s?
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Post by Carma on Aug 6, 2008 4:33:39 GMT -5
wow, third post in a row! last section, and I LOVED this book 25. Do you think all characters ended up with the love interest they deserve?
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zeldafitzgerald
Collection of short stories bought by Random House
ancora imparo
Posts: 1,948
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Post by zeldafitzgerald on Aug 6, 2008 6:54:00 GMT -5
25. Do you think all characters ended up with the love interest they deserve? I do think they did, and I think that's part of why I like Emma so much. Because everyone does not end up with who you'd except them to end up with, but I was happy with it even so.
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Post by Carma on Aug 6, 2008 10:52:34 GMT -5
I agree with you Zelda. I wasn't expecting any of the couples when I read it the first time. This second time I actually picked up a bit more clues. That was really fun . I think maybe Jane deserved better, because Frank is ok, but not that great... but I really like emma and mr knightley together
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