Isa
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Post by Isa on Mar 23, 2009 7:53:48 GMT -5
I like Neil the best too, but because of the similarities we talked about, I've got a feeling that Simon will turn out to be the most important character... we'll see!
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Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
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Post by Kristie on Mar 23, 2009 9:41:31 GMT -5
I finished Part 1 yesterday and so far I'm enjoying the novel. What I like the most about it is how it sort of combines the styles of Jane Austen and the Brontë sisters. Even if Cassandra hadn't mentioned it, it's easy to pick up on the similarities. The castle itself is such an important part of the story, it reminds me of how places like Pemberley, Netherfield, Mansfield Park, Northanger Abbey, etc., are so important in Austen's novels that they almost become like secondary characters. But the gothic setting of the castle has perhaps more to do with Jane Eyre's Moor House or Wuthering Heights... The arrival of the two brothers again reminded me of Bingley and Darcy's arrival at Longbourn, with one being nice and peppy and the other one being a bit more subdued and dark. Not to mention that just like the Bennet sisters, Rose is looking for a husband to put her out of her misery and poverty! But again there is something darker in Simon Cotton - not quite like Heathcliff, maybe more like Mr. Rochester. It'll be interesting to see where this leads... I agree! I am so excited that this book is like Austen and Brontes put together. I've only read Jane Eyre, but I can tell that that was more gothic. There are so many similiarities to P&P--it's impossible to not recognize the similiarities after I've read it 3 times The episode with the "bear" and Rose running through the field--I had sort of expected her to get hurt and have to stay at Scoatney Hall. It would've been like Jane getting sick and having to stay at Netherfield I'm thinking that Neil is definitely more fun, like Bingley, but Simon is more serious, like Darcy or Mr. Rochester.
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Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
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Post by Kristie on Mar 23, 2009 9:44:20 GMT -5
which one of the newcomers do you like the best? I think I like neil the best. (at least for the first part of the book ) I like Neil the best, but I think that Simon is going to end up being more important to the story.
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Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
Posts: 7,214
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Post by Kristie on Mar 23, 2009 9:59:45 GMT -5
Aside from my comments about the similarities between this book and Austen & the Brontes, there were other thoughts I had while reading the first part.
First of all, I'm not a very big fan of Rose's character. It's not really her character, so much as the way everyone else treats her--I just don't like how she's treated like the princess. There was the instance when the family was talking about money and how to get more income--or any income. When Rose proposed going to work as a maid nearby, everyone said no and that she has no talents or skills, so she shouldn't work. I think that she really could work, but is too smart and lazy and figures if she pretends to not be able to do anything, she'll get out of having to. While I know the time is different--this book is about 70 years old--I still don't think it would look bad on the family to have Rose do that work if it meant they wouldn't starve.
I also don't like the way Cassandra writes about Rose--as if she's a goddess and can do no wrong. The way Cassandra writes about Rose, it seems as if Cassandra was told while growing up that Rose was perfect and would accomplish everything and that she, Cassandra, would amount to nothing. Cassandra doesn't seem to see much in herself, but thinks that Rose is "practically perfect in every way" to quote Mary Poppins This is just my opinion, but I'm not happy that Cassandra, the stronger of the two sisters (I think), has such a low self-worth.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Mar 23, 2009 14:48:41 GMT -5
I have to agree, I don't quite understand what made Rose the daughter in whom all hopes seem to rest, other than the fact that she's a bit older. Cassandra clearly seems to have a nicer personality and more skills in general. I'm not sure that her admiration for Rose comes from low self-esteem, I think it has more to do with the fact that Rose is her older sister - I used to be like that with my sister, and I still am in many ways (though at least my sister is worthy of my admiration!).
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Post by Dominique on Mar 23, 2009 18:14:32 GMT -5
I finished Part 1 yesterday and so far I'm enjoying the novel. What I like the most about it is how it sort of combines the styles of Jane Austen and the Brontë sisters. Even if Cassandra hadn't mentioned it, it's easy to pick up on the similarities. The castle itself is such an important part of the story, it reminds me of how places like Pemberley, Netherfield, Mansfield Park, Northanger Abbey, etc., are so important in Austen's novels that they almost become like secondary characters. But the gothic setting of the castle has perhaps more to do with Jane Eyre's Moor House or Wuthering Heights... The arrival of the two brothers again reminded me of Bingley and Darcy's arrival at Longbourn, with one being nice and peppy and the other one being a bit more subdued and dark. Not to mention that just like the Bennet sisters, Rose is looking for a husband to put her out of her misery and poverty! But again there is something darker in Simon Cotton - not quite like Heathcliff, maybe more like Mr. Rochester. It'll be interesting to see where this leads... I agree! I am so excited that this book is like Austen and Brontes put together. I've only read Jane Eyre, but I can tell that that was more gothic. There are so many similiarities to P&P--it's impossible to not recognize the similiarities after I've read it 3 times The episode with the "bear" and Rose running through the field--I had sort of expected her to get hurt and have to stay at Scoatney Hall. It would've been like Jane getting sick and having to stay at Netherfield I'm thinking that Neil is definitely more fun, like Bingley, but Simon is more serious, like Darcy or Mr. Rochester.I actually think Neil might be more fun but he's also more shrewd than Simon. I can't think of a specific example but in a few areas of the book so far he's implied as having percieved things Simon hasn't. I really love it so far, the only problem is the movie is an absolute favourite of mine and my mum too so I already know the story really well and so far the movie is pretty true to the book. I think in a lot of ways the characters of Rose and Cassandra are like one woman split in two: two different sides of nearly everyone's personality. The beautiful, selfish one and the smart, serious, thoughtful one. Most of us have a little of both in them I think. I think that's why Rose isn't that likeable because she's too one sided in a lot of ways. I just love the setting of The Castle, I love Gothic settings!
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charmed4evr
First piece published in the school’s newspaper
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Post by charmed4evr on Mar 24, 2009 11:34:14 GMT -5
I actually finished part one a few days ago but haven't had the time to post. I love the charracters and the setting so far. I am suprised im liking it so much as I didn't think I would. I agree with what people have said about Rose's charrater though.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Mar 30, 2009 17:27:11 GMT -5
Shall we move on to Part 2? I liked this section better than the first one. We're really getting to know all the characters and I find them all original and fascinating. I still don't know that I like the idea of the book being written as a journal, but the style didn't bother me as much in this section, perhaps because we are meant to feel that Cassandra's writing skills are improving? It's funny though, because I'm in the middle of reading the Twilight series, Neil and Stephen sort of remind me of Edward and Jacob It'll be interesting to see where this leads, I can't imagine Cassandra not falling for one of the two in the next section, though I've no idea who she might pick. Money (or lack thereof) often seem to be the central theme of the novel - incidentally, I like how the books in which Cassandra writes go from costing a few pennies, to a few shillings, to a few guineas I thought it was a clever way to subtly describe the rise in the family's circumstances as they get to know the Cottons. And even if there is still that link with Jane Austen novels, we see that because the action takes place a century later, society has changed and it is now possible for rich people to mingle with those who have less money, as long as they're intellectual equals. Reading it from an Austen point of view, I half expected Mrs. Cotton to be horrified at the idea of Simon getting married with Rose, but they seem to be above that. Only Neil accuses her of being a gold-digger, and I guess he's not entirely wrong about that, but this feeling seems to stem from the fact that he's more American than British and often sees things differently. Again, I can't wait to see what happens next!
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Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
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Post by Kristie on Mar 30, 2009 20:38:14 GMT -5
Shall we move on to Part 2? I liked this section better than the first one. We're really getting to know all the characters and I find them all original and fascinating. I still don't know that I like the idea of the book being written as a journal, but the style didn't bother me as much in this section, perhaps because we are meant to feel that Cassandra's writing skills are improving? I actually like the way this is written as a journal. I don't really even notice it most of the time because she is telling the stories. She writes it down like a story from a book--it's not at all the way I write in my diary. I admit that I did notice it more in the first part, so her writing is improving, as you mentioned At least I think so...Money (or lack thereof) often seems to be the central theme of the novel - incidentally, I like how the books in which Cassandra writes go from costing a few pennies, to a few shillings, to a few guineas I thought it was a clever way to subtly describe the rise in the family's circumstances as they get to know the Cottons. And even if there is still that link with Jane Austen novels, we see that because the action takes place a century later, society has changed and it is now possible for rich people to mingle with those who have less money, as long as they're intellectual equals. Reading it from an Austen point of view, I half expected Mrs. Cotton to be horrified at the idea of Simon getting married to Rose, but they seem to be above that. Only Neil accuses her of being a gold-digger, and I guess he's not entirely wrong about that, but this feeling seems to stem from the fact that he's more American than British and often sees things differently. Again, I can't wait to see what happens next! I am finding that difference to Austen's novels really interesting too. At first, it seemed like Mrs. Cotton was going to react in a negative way to the engagement--but either she was above that or she hid it well. It is possible that she realizes Rose is a gold-digger as well and is just thinking that, despite that, she and the rest of the Mortmains are good people. She certainly seems to like Mr. Mortmain a lot
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Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
Posts: 7,214
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Post by Kristie on Mar 30, 2009 20:52:12 GMT -5
One thing I find interesting about this book is that Cassandra seems to not really want to be in love with anyone. She didn't even realize she might have some feelings for Stephen until her father told her to not have feelings for him. I understand that he might seem like a brother to her, but she never really played around with the idea? In this sense, Cassandra seems to be a bit of a realist. Rose is a dreamer, but Cassandra doesn't seem to imagine much more than what she can see for herself. However, I do think she is getting some feelings for both of the Cottons. While she seems to like Neil, it also seems like she's trying not to like Simon--and I think she even seems to be making herself like Neil. I guess she's just resigned to let Rose have Simon...
I saw a very obvious P&P moment in this part. In Chapter 9, Topaz tells Cassandra that Mortmain had said (about Mrs. Cotton), "That he'd placed her wrongly--her knowledge of literature wasn't at all superficial; she was very widely read. 'It just shows that one shouldn't generalize...on the strength of a brief acquaintance.'" This really reminded me of the original P&P title, First Impressions, as well as the whole prejudice kind of idea that Darcy has at the beginning of the book. It might not have been obvious, I guess, but I definitely thought of it right away
Anyone else getting annoyed with how Simon calls Cassandra a child all the time? Sure, she's younger, but she's only a couple years younger than Rose and much more intelligent (I think). But I do love the conversation Simon has with Cassandra--it really shows us his character better.
Here was my major thought for this part. I've been thinking that there have been roles presented to Cassandra, Rose, and Simon that they think they have to fill. I think that Cassandra and Simon seem to like each other and have a more worthwhile relationship than Simon and Rose, but Cassandra would never try to take Rose's role as the one for Simon. Simon mentions how he is a critic of books, etc.--I think that he would have noticed by now that Rose hardly loves him, even if she professes she does (I don't think she does). Wouldn't you think a critic would be able to read people better? I don't think beauty would mask as much as it is apparently supposed to in this case. Not to mention Rose had to force herself to fall in love with Simon--a reason I think she doesn't. Cassandra seems consigned to her lower role as a not-too-beautiful second daughter of a poor family--I wish she would have more spunk like Elizabeth Bennet...
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Mar 31, 2009 6:13:20 GMT -5
I think perhaps Simon calls her a child because even though she's quite intelligent, she still seems fairly naive, so she might project that image. I also think it might be the reason why she doesn't really have feelings for another boy - it goes back to our previous discussion, about how she was brought up to think of Rose as the elder, beautiful sister who was going to get married. I think that once Rose moves out of the house, Cassandra won't be the "little sister" anymore and it might help become more mature. She is starting to feel some things, like when Neil had his arm around her shoulders, but these feelings are still new and confusing.
I also find it a bit weird that Simon would fall in love with Rose the way he did and basically attribute all her flaws to originality, you'd think he was cleverer than that... I thought the scene where Rose gets him to shave his beard sort of provided us with an insight into their future together, and it doesn't bode well for Simon. No wonder Cassandra thought of Samson and Delilah! And you're right Kristie, there is a lot of "first impressions" going on in the novel - like Simon turning out to be really sweet even though they thought he looked like the devil at first. But the funny thing is that Simon's first impressions of Rose might have been the correct ones...
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Post by Dominique on Apr 1, 2009 17:56:30 GMT -5
I think Cassandra not seeming to be in love with anyone or even remotely interested in anyone of her own accord in this part of the book is a bit unrealistic. I think it's prettty unlikely that a girl of her age wouldn't have at least toyed with the idea of being with someone as attractive as Stephen, or at least been more interested in wondering about marrying one of the Cottons. Especially given her pretty isolated environment. Simon calling her a child started to really annoy me, especially later when he kisses her and then keeps calling her a child (not sure if that's in this section or not but they've blended together in my mind since finishing). But I guess that's also partially because it was written in 1949, it was probably more usually to call young adolescents child back then than it is now. I love the scene where they go swimming in the moat!
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Apr 2, 2009 7:33:10 GMT -5
Dom, you said before you like the movie - were you talking about the 2003 BBC version? I started watching it on youtube and I really like it so far, I think they did a great job with casting. It's funny because Bill Nighy is exactly who I had in mind to play the part of Mortmain, and I really like Romola Garai.
By the way, do any of you know if Stephenie Meyer ever mentioned "I Capture the Castle" as an inspiration for the Twilight series? Because the more I read, the more similarities I find...
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Post by Dominique on Apr 2, 2009 18:02:09 GMT -5
Yup that's the one, I didn't realise there were others as well. Yeah they did do a perfect job in casting the actors they did, but then Bill Nighy is wonderful in everything he ever does!
I'm not sure, I know she's cited Wuthering Heights and Romeo and Juliet but I can't remember what else.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Apr 2, 2009 18:44:20 GMT -5
OK, it's because there's this scene in the movie where Cassandra imagines she's walking with Stephen and they get to this little meadow full of bluebells and she says they get there at "twilight", so I thought perhaps Stephenie Meyer had seen the movie and had her famous "meadow dream" after that. And she did say she pictured Edward looking like Henry Cavill when she was writing the novel, so I guess it would make sense... Then later, there's a line where Cassandra wishes on the "new moon", and Simon plays Debussy's Clair de Lune for her. It just seems like a whole lot of coincidences!
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