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Post by mockingbrid on Mar 8, 2008 9:48:19 GMT -5
We don't need this creature we made anymore. There is no reason in "believing" in him anymore. We now know so much more about the world...let's stop lying to ourselves and end wasting our time in worshiping something that isn't there. Even though we know lots more about the scientific aspects of this world (but we still don't know about the big bang, evolution, or time travel yet), we don't know why bad stuff happens. Why are families torn apart by divorce? Why do good people have to get cancer and die? Why are innocent people killed in wars? Some things like that cannot be handled by ourselves. We can ask people to help, but people aren't perfect and they can fail you. The goal of many, if not all, religions is to get the strength from something else to face the problems of this world, even if the problems aren't simple matters such as where thunder comes from. Even though the answeres to the questions I asked above are not answered by many religions, the God gives people strenth. Many religious people are considered weak because they rely on an imaginary God to get through their lives. I think they demonstrate a great deal of strength because they can believe in something that they can't see or touch. They can have faith that this God will get them through and will never fail them. Until all the problems are solved in this world, we still need a God, not for answers but for strength.
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Post by Carma on Mar 8, 2008 10:22:27 GMT -5
I've always wondered how religious schools teach subjects like Biology if it's mostly based on the Evolution Theory... They don't believe in it, right? I went to a Christian school, but it wasn't 'extremely' Christian. But we just had biology like any other school... But I think the government has these lines that every school had to follow... But I'm not sure.. I'm a catholic, but i haven't been to church for years... and the last time was probably at Christmas.. 3 years ago. But when I was little we used to go every week. I don't really believe that you need to go to church, if God knows everything (like they say) then He'll know if you've been good and if you believe. There are those really religious people here in Holland and they don't have a tv, because they're not allowed. But they do buy DVD's and then watch movies on their computers, they also have internet.. . I think thats just stupid... Theres a word for it, but I can't come up with it... I don't want to insult people that are the way I just described... It's just my opinion
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Wess
First poem written for Mother’s Day
Posts: 41
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Post by Wess on Mar 8, 2008 16:57:18 GMT -5
We don't need this creature we made anymore. There is no reason in "believing" in him anymore. We now know so much more about the world...let's stop lying to ourselves and end wasting our time in worshiping something that isn't there. Even though we know lots more about the scientific aspects of this world (but we still don't know about the big bang, evolution, or time travel yet), We DO know a lot about the big bang. Red shift, cosmic background radiation, gravitational singularity... the theory is pretty solid. Same goes with Darwin's theory. These theories are based on many years of research by hundreds of scientists. You should consider reading Bryson's A Short History of Nearly Everything (even if you're religious, be open-minded!). Why are families torn apart by divorce? Because some people don't know what it means to be in a marriage. Why do good people have to get cancer and die? First, not all good people get cancer, second, not everyone that has cancer dies, third, not only "good people" get cancer. Cancer exists and cancer doesn't think. It could kill anyone. Why are innocent people killed in wars? Because in wars, people get killed. Both innocent and "guilty" people. That's a war. (actually, the question should be "Why are there wars?". The answer on that is rather simple, it's because human beings naturally are evil). I think I can summarize your questions with one question: "Why is the world unfair?". Well, that's because it is. The world never has been fair and it will never be. Like I said in my original post, I truly do understand why people believe in God, I have respect for them (hence why I always type God with a capital G). It's just that I don't think it's the right thing to do. Cancer, for example. We can all pray to God and ask him to save everyone that has it. I personally don't think it'll do anything. It might make is feel better about it, in the way as "we did our best", but it won't have any effect. What we CAN do (instead of hoping for a miracle) is trying to find a cure for cancer. We should look for something that's based on facts. The bottom line: let's accept everything as it is... and try to fix it ourselves. There always is an explanation and there always is a solution. By the way, the world will never be solved from all the problems, that's how it is. But, isn't that's why we wake up every morning? It's what we do all do all the time... solving problems. CarmaHypocriet? *cough* hypocrisy?
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bookworm
Collection of short stories published by an independent editor
"Everything you can imagine is real" - Pablo Picasso
Posts: 973
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Post by bookworm on Mar 8, 2008 17:45:24 GMT -5
Since scientific knowledge has been mentioned, I thought I'd chip in... When it comes to how the world was created, physicists have a solid theory, which pretty much explains everything. Sure, as we approach t=0 sec there are some singularities that cause problems, but good solutions are being created... I'm not saying that there aren't some blanks to be filled, but I think it's a matter of personal choice to call the missing parts God or not. I don't. 100 years ago we didn't have quantum mechanics or relativity, not to mention the technological advances since then. Scientific knowledge of our world grows daily and it will only keep growing! Something that was unknown in the past and could be attributed to God is today completely explained. That's probably why I can't believe in God... I don't see how to believe in something you cannot see or touch or measure in any way is strength. It always seemed irrational to me... Of course, I understand some people's need for something greater, a God, to believe in. And if the fear or love of God makes them kind and honest and moral, even better! What makes me angry though, is that a lot of times religious people tend to be close-minded and judgmental of others. I think all religions have love and acceptance as their base, and yet most religion-followers fail to do exactly that...
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Michelle
First novel published
Posts: 2,563
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Post by Michelle on Mar 8, 2008 18:34:40 GMT -5
Read Big Bang by Simon Singh - it is a very good description of the theory of the origins of the universe and how they developed.
My issue with the Big Bang is that we don't know what caused it. We know it happened, but what existed before it? That's sort of where I think God has to play a role. Or some sort of supernatural being. Or is this just my flawed human brain not being able to grasp the idea of the beginning of time?
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jobean
First novel published
Posts: 2,479
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Post by jobean on Mar 8, 2008 18:52:01 GMT -5
So there probably aren't any scientists who believe in a superior being then? I've always wanted to know what Scientology represents..
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Wess
First poem written for Mother’s Day
Posts: 41
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Post by Wess on Mar 9, 2008 3:01:23 GMT -5
MichelleThat's what I was trying to say with my whole "thunder story". Religious people tend to say God has something to do with it, if they can't explain it. But like I said earlier, I think there IS a way to explain anything factually, we just don't know how to yet. (and of course, in your defense, it's just as easy to say that as to say there is a God ). Btw, most (read: close to all) scientists don't care about what happened before the big bang started (the big bang is a process, not a "bang". There are many misconceptions about it). It doesn't matter, it wouldn't tell us more about the universe we live in. @jobean Scientology has nothing to do with science. (check this out: www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hPzJXrPA8Q)There definitely are religious scientists. I want to add something to my story. We people like to think we're the center of the universe, litterly. All the stars, our sun, the moon and all the other planets are around us. It was all made (by God, according to religious people) to serve us. Well, let me tell you this...that's not the truth. We're just a tiny blue planet. And when I say tiny, I mean *tiny*. It's really nothing compared to a lot of other things in the universe. For example, a comparison between the Sun (which is 109 times bigger than planet Earth) and VY Canis Majoris: clickWhat I'm trying to say is that we're just an atom in the universe. I personally don't think it was all created by this one person just for us.
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Lu
Administrator
Posts: 5,469
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Post by Lu on Mar 9, 2008 4:52:11 GMT -5
I am a Catholic and I don't consider myself close-minded, I believe that being a Christian must affect my own life and style of living and not of everyone else around me (I'm sure I've already post about that in this thread...), I'd be sick if someone wants to impose me their religion and I don't do that myself, anyway I guess my family (my mom is Catholic my dad is sort of agnostic) influenced my opinion. I do know some close-minded Christians but I also know many close-minded atheists and that's a bad thing too. I don't believe my religion is truth and the others are completely wrong, I have not a great aknowledge of other religions (just what I've studied at school) but I think we should stop talking about differences. All beliefs deserve the same respect I give to my own belief. What I really HATE is when religion is involved into politics (or I have better say exploited by politics, if "exploit" is the correct word). I want to add something to my story. We people like to think we're the center of the universe, litterly. All the stars, our sun, the moon and all the other planets are around us. It was all made (by God, according to religious people) to serve us. Well, let me tell you this...that's not the truth. We're just a tiny blue planet. And when I say tiny, I mean *tiny*. It's really nothing compared to a lot of other things in the universe. For example, a comparison between the Sun (which is 109 times bigger than planet Earth) and VY Canis Majoris: clickWhat I'm trying to say is that we're just an atom in the universe. I personally don't think it was all created by this one person just for us. You're right, Wess. I think about this a lot and I try to never forget, for me it's a very anti-selfish thought!
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Michelle
First novel published
Posts: 2,563
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Post by Michelle on Mar 9, 2008 9:57:45 GMT -5
About the religious scientist question, I once read that most scientists who actually study evolution do believe in some sort of higher being. I thought that was interesting.
Wess, I think understand the big bang pretty well and even if other people aren't interested in what happened before, I can't help but wonder.
I also don't think that is harmful to believe in something even if it doesn't exist. Of course that changes when you start imposing your religion on others, etc, but basically, a belief might help people get through life and how can we fault people for that. I wish it were easier for me to believe because I think it would make life easier.
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Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
Posts: 7,214
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Post by Kristie on Mar 9, 2008 12:51:14 GMT -5
Memccart, I agree with you about it not being harmful to believe in something even if it doesn't exist. It can't hurt to believe in God (unless he commands you to do immoral things). I guess I'm just a person who has to "see to believe" maybe. Like if I saw a miracle happen, one that couldn't be explained by science, I might believe more. But obviously miracles aren't common. I just have trouble with the faith part--I can't have faith in something I can't prove is real or unreal.
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Post by Carma on Mar 9, 2008 13:12:19 GMT -5
CarmaHypocriet? *cough* hypocrisy? ah yes! Thats the one!
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Post by Hanna on Mar 9, 2008 18:16:28 GMT -5
I'm not gonna pretend to know a lot about science and stuff, because really I don't. I remember we had lots of classes about it in Bible college, but to be honest back then I was too stupid to pay attention because I never had any problem believing the world was God's creation. I still don't, I just kind of accept it when the Bible says God created the world ( I often have trouble believing other stuff though). But I wish now that I had been a bit less selfish and paid attention in those classes in order to have something to say when people asked.
As Memcart wrote, I too have read that many scientists believe in a higher power (whatever that means). I've also heard, and though I cannot make any references right now, I'm pretty sure it's true, was that some years ago, scientists discovered that we had two "missing" time phases, I think one was about nine hours, and one was a bit longer. Anyway, one of the scientists knew that the Bible spoke twice about God "stopping" the sun, so that day would last longer, and as they found the Bible stories and checked it out the missing time phases could be traced back to those events. Of course that is some explanation the people in Biblical times have come up with because they didn't know better, but...
Another thing, but this I am not 100% sure of, but didn't Darwin reject his own teachings before he died? I think so.
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
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Post by caffeinequeen on Mar 9, 2008 22:10:31 GMT -5
@ hannamarie
Nope, Darwin didn't reject his own teachings near the end of his life. Don't know where you got that from.
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Post by Dominique on Mar 9, 2008 22:27:17 GMT -5
It sounds familiar to me that he did too, maybe it was someone else.
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Post by pixie on Mar 10, 2008 1:13:48 GMT -5
I agree with Wess about the origin of religion part. Modern science as opposed to ancient philosophies doesn't focus on "why things happen?" as an explenation but rather on "how things happen?" for example, we don't ask now why the sun rises or why people get cancer and look for an answer that is somehow related to religion and God. we rather look for how the suunrises and how people get cancer and that's its cause and explenation for us.
I also agree with Kristie about the "there's no harm in believing" part. i don't want people to judge me on not believing and it would be hypocrite to judge them on believing. it's their own lives and they can spend it doing whatever they think suits them best.
However, there is a very important point i wannna add. some people misuse religion. Wess explained why religion started and i'm gonna say why (in my opinion) it continued. Religion gives religious leaders huge power over the public which they can, and do, use to serve their own private agendas. religious leaders play on people's emotions and use their insecurities to make them committed to religion. someone said that religion gives you strength, that's because religious leaders tell you want you wanna hear and promise you that you are gonna get what you want if you abide by religion. for example, if you are lonely, despaired, got cancer, have been unjustly treated, battled addiction ... etc and feel like you are weak and you can't continue on your own, religion makes you feel that there is a massive power on your side, which is God, which helps you get over your weakness and insecurities. however, nothing is for free. in order to get that help from God, you have to follow religion which means to follow religious leaders. it's the same way with hell, they use the fact that we as humans are afraid of the unknown including what happens to us after death and convince us that we will be severely punished if we didn't follow. the worst part is that sometimes the hidden agendas of religious leaders could be more than just personal benefits and way more dangerous. in european history, there are hundreds of examples of leaders using Christianity as an excuse for wars against other nations claiming that they are protecting Christianity or spreading it. also, with the Christian suicide bombers who used to bomb abortion clinics. the same thing is happening with Islam. Extremist Islamists are using the muslims' aiveté and ignorance of the surrounding world to convince them that the outsider world is trying to destroy them and westernize the rest of the world. on the other hand, others are stereotyping all muslims and thinking they are all extremists which isn't true. thus, the misuse of religion could be extremely dangerous and disastrous.
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