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Post by pixie on Mar 13, 2008 4:50:14 GMT -5
kristie, i find what you said about world religions really interesting. especially the part about that the more strict a religion is the more followers it tends to have. it's kinda shocking and scary for me too. i thought that now with all that talk about different kinds of freedoms the world was becoming more acceptable to the idea that religion should be less strict and more flexible but obviously i was wrong. does anybody have any explanation for that ??
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Post by Hanna on Mar 13, 2008 10:46:13 GMT -5
Pixie, you're "answer" to Memcart, was really interesting, I haven't heard that before!
I don't think I have an explanation for why religions stay strict, and forgive me if I'm misunderstanding the question, but I think, well take me for example. I'm a conservative Christian who believes the Bible to be God's word and to be my main guideline through life, as do many other Christians. To me (or us) it doesn't really matter what the world in general thinks of the strictness of my faith, because the Bible doesn't change, so my "religious freedom" will always remain inside the limits the Bible puts. Don't know if that made any sense at all, but I think it's like that with many, both Christians and other religions. Please ask if I need to clearify something, explaining stuff is really not my strength;)
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Wess
First poem written for Mother’s Day
Posts: 41
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Post by Wess on Mar 13, 2008 13:58:13 GMT -5
Catholics believe that Mary was born without sin (the immaculate conception) so that she could bring Jesus into the world. That makes her very different from any of the other saints and other people. So do Muslims. It's written in the Qur'an that God sent an angel to announce a birth, despite she is a virgin (sounds familiar?). There are two main differences. In the Qur'an Jesus performed many more miracles than in the Bible. For example, Jesus's first miracle in the Qur'an was when he was a baby. In the Bible, His first miracle was performed as an adult. This is not the most important difference though, the most important difference is Jesus's role. The Qur'an says that there only is one God, and nothing else. Jesus was "just" a prophet (just like Mohammed). According to the Muslims, there is only one true divine being...which is God. By the way, in the Qur'an they litterly call Jesus the Messiah (again, sounds familiar?). My personal theory for the differences is that first, the Qur'an was written roughly 500~700 years after Jesus Christ's story was written in the Bible. Between all those years, people have been telling Jesus's story. Of course, the stories were told orally, so the story changed constantly. The version in the Qur'an probably is one of the versions. Jesus's role simply is a matter of principle. They say it is impossible for such thing as a "Son of God". They say the existence of a Son of God is contradicting monotheism. I think these two things are the main things that divide the Christians and the Muslims on this subject. What I'm trying to say (for the second time) is that really, the three many religions are much, much more alike as many people think they are. If you study all three religions you'll see. There is a really interesting documentary on the differences and similarities of Jesus in the Bible and the Qur'an. I think I saw it on the NGC. If you happen to come across it, watch it!
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Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
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Post by Kristie on Mar 13, 2008 14:09:25 GMT -5
Of course, the stories were told orally, so the story changed constantly. This is exactly my problem with the Bible. I find it hard to believe that if the stuff in the Bible--or any religious text--was the truth when it was originally written, more than 2,000 years later something has to have been lost among the times and the different translations.
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Post by pixie on Mar 13, 2008 21:52:12 GMT -5
thanks for the reply hannamarie .. it really helped. i interpreted "strict religion" as being kinda less tolerant or acceptable to the freedoms that people(in general not only the religion's followers) are been giving today. in other words, i thought that a religion being strict means that it want to control all the aspects of people's life regardless of their approval or rejection to this notion. that's why i thought it was shocking and scary. did that make sense? but you interpreted the term "strict religion" differently which was interesting. it's always good to hear a different opinion. i hope you got what i said.
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Post by annalovesbooks1983 on Jan 17, 2009 4:11:49 GMT -5
I was reading through this old post...Lately Im struggling with my beliefs alot, and reading through this post was helping, I was raised Catholic but as I grew up I decided I didn't believe it...later in my late teens I started going to a Christian Church, the kind that teachs about being born again and Ive been going to that sort of church for a few years now, but lately Im just struggling with believing in its truth..sometimes Im finding Christians to be very close minded or judgemental and I find it very hurtful, Im sorry if Im offending anyone, I dont mean to, Religion / God can be so confusing at times, I just dont know what to think,
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Isa
Administrator
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Post by Isa on Jan 17, 2009 8:30:37 GMT -5
I don't think you're offending anyone, we all have different views and beliefs and people here are very openminded. I think most people, whether they are believers or non-believers, will struggle at some point and have a hard time finding answers to their questions. I just reached that part in "A Tree Grows in Brooklyn" where Francie declares she doesn't believe in God anymore, and I thought it was pretty amazing that a woman back in the 1940s had written a book about a little girl who questions her faith. It shows you that it's normal for anyone to go through this...
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zeldafitzgerald
Collection of short stories bought by Random House
ancora imparo
Posts: 1,948
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Post by zeldafitzgerald on Jan 17, 2009 10:29:56 GMT -5
I was reading through this old post...Lately Im struggling with my beliefs alot, and reading through this post was helping, I was raised Catholic but as I grew up I decided I didn't believe it...later in my late teens I started going to a Christian Church, the kind that teachs about being born again and Ive been going to that sort of church for a few years now, but lately Im just struggling with believing in its truth..sometimes Im finding Christians to be very close minded or judgemental and I find it very hurtful, Im sorry if Im offending anyone, I dont mean to, Religion / God can be so confusing at times, I just dont know what to think, It's so normal to feel that way! (as Isa pointed out too - and I also love that aspect of A Tree Grows in Brooklyn.) There are so many books that talk about issues like this - you might enjoy exploring some of them. There's a book called unChristian - and it talks about how outsiders view Christians as very judgmental and not very accepting, and talks about what the Christian church needs to do to change these perceptions and connect with people. I actually have not read it myself, but one of my Vox friends did, and she loved it. If you're interested in it, here's the post where she talks about it, it's the last book talked about in this post: wickedsmaht.vox.com/library/post/the-man-who-does-not-read-good-books-has-no-advantage-over-the-man-who-cant-read-them-mark-twain.html On a completely opposite end of the spectrum, there's one of my favorite books - Nothing to be Frightened of by Julian Barnes, which is about his fear of death and dying, but covers a lot about him becoming an atheist and then slowly moving towards agnostic. I love this one because Julian's views are very fascinating and I agree with a lot of what he says. I had a very unique upbringing, in terms of religion. My parents did not raise me to be religious, and we did not go to church. (They were Christians in their youth, but never started going to church anywhere after they got married.) My neighborhood was mostly very strict Christians, and I was friends with them all. They started bringing me to the fun, Wednesday night kid's programs, and eventually over the years I started going regularly, to all services. Then my mom started going too, and then my dad. So now my parents and my little brother all go regularly! But I completely changed in college - the more I learned about the world and different religions, the more I did not like the idea of there being "one correct" religion that is the only way to avoid damnation. I became completely separate from organized religion. I still consider myself very spiritual, but dislike the Christian church - I find it very judgmental and hypocritical. One more thing about Religion - I cannot wait to see Bill Mahr's documentary "Religulous"! I'm renting it as soon as it comes out on DVD.
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Halie
Collection of short stories published by an independent editor
Posts: 982
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Post by Halie on Jan 17, 2009 11:07:31 GMT -5
Here's my stance:
I find religion so incredibly interesting, but I believe in no God whatsoever. I just don't.
However, I feel like this allows me to study and observe different religions and cultures in a different way because I am not biased towards a certain religion and try to be very respectful of other people (I normally don't talk about my own personal religion, but this is an online forum). Because, for example, in the Bible, it is said that Christianity is the the way that Jesus wants the world to live and other religions are incorrect (that's the basic message, anyways). So, I feel that, because I don't feel this way, it opens my mind up to be able to look at religions with a different eye. I sometimes feel like this is why there have been religious wars for thousands of years: people can't step back from their own beliefs for a second and even try to negotiate with others.
All religions are fundamentally based on the same thing, anyways: being a good person. I feel like this is possible for me in my daily life without placing my faith in a higher power that I would always doubt anyways.
I also feel like religious "fanatics" give privately religious people a bad name. I see nothing wrong with being spiritual, like zeldafitzgerald (I have Nothing to be Frightened of by Julian Barnes on my TBR list, BTW -- I'll definitely read it now!). In fact, if that helps someone deal with their everyday stresses, that's great. But those who try to promote their religion, to the extent of being judgmental, bother me. First, isn't that a major pillar of Christianity, for example? Though shall not judge? And second, if you tell me I'm damned and headed to hell, what do I care? I don't even believe in hell, so how would this affect me? And besides, even if I do somehow wind up in hell or come back as a frog, at least I lived a happy life. That's really all I care about.
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Post by pixie on Jan 17, 2009 12:45:20 GMT -5
It's very true what you guys said about everyone questioning their beliefs at some point in their life. Halie, I agree with everything you said. You spoke my mind!
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Halie
Collection of short stories published by an independent editor
Posts: 982
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Post by Halie on Jan 17, 2009 18:34:49 GMT -5
I appreciate that. I was half-worried that I'd post my beliefs and get some backlash.
At one time in my life I believed in God, but I think that was because I wanted to. I loved my church and had a great community there, but after I moved away I realized it was the feeling of family that I loved, not the religious aspects. I struggled for a while about not believing in God, so I definitely identify with anyone who is in the same boat. It wasn't until I learned about Existentialism that I could completely accept my infidelity, and then I became a hard-core believer in the philosophy for a while. Now, I'm still an Atheist, but I've evened out and like to think that I've become less extreme.
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Michelle
First novel published
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Post by Michelle on Jan 17, 2009 19:03:01 GMT -5
I've been struggling lately, too. I was raised Catholic. I've gone to mass pretty much weekly my whole life. Even though I struggled with what I actually believed, I always tried to go to mass each week just to keep some tie to religion. But I haven't been since July (besides my cousin's wedding and Christmas Eve). I thought it was just the campaign that kept me from going but I haven't gone back. Part of it is that I haven't found a "liberal" or young Catholic church in Florida. I just can't go anymore because there is so much dissonance between what they are saying and what I believe.
Basically, I'm not worrying about it right now and I guess/hope I have time to figure it out later. So instead of dealing with it -I'm postponing my decision about what I actually believe.
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Isa
Administrator
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Post by Isa on Jan 18, 2009 8:17:34 GMT -5
I was raised Catholic too, but I started questionning my faith when I was a teenager and eventually came to the conclusion that even though I did believe in God, or at least in some sort of a supreme power, that was the extent of my spirituality. I don't believe in organized religion, I don't believe in the Bible and I don't believe in Jesus, pretty much for the same reasons that some of you guys have mentionned: how can there be only one religion that's right while all the others are wrong, and how lucky would I have to be to be born in the right one?! So to me, the Church going aspect has always seemed like a very unimportant part of spirituality, because you can just as well pray at home if you feel like it. It's happened a few times that I've felt the need to walk into a church because I needed that "atmosphere", but I always do so between masses, when the place is quiet and I have some room to think because I really don't like the idea of being told what to pray about. I still think religion has a place in this world because it can bring comfort to people and help them become better persons, but I hate how it can also bring out the worst in some people...
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Post by annalovesbooks1983 on Jan 18, 2009 9:33:33 GMT -5
Thank you all for your posts and your comments , they have given me alot to think about, and its comforting to see that there are others out there who question too, so it is normal, I think what Im struggling with most is that idea that there is only one correct Religion, only one way is right and everyone else is wrong, I just cant get my head around that, I definately believe in God but maybe its okay to just have a time where I just dont know what exactly to believe. Im going to read the books mentioned on here too Thanks
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Post by annalovesbooks1983 on Jan 18, 2009 9:44:55 GMT -5
I think its really interesting to read and find out more about religion and cultures, Can any of you reccommend any good books to read on religions, just to get some objective perspective?
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