Bookclub book #3: Fahrenheit 451

[Isa]

Yup, we're ready!

[Kristie]

In this section we begin seeing Millie still as afraid of the books like it’s a great phobia she has. She tells Montag, “Books aren’t people. You read and I look around but there isn’t anybody.” (p.73) She’s so afraid to touch them and she doesn’t think they have any worth at all to be caught reading.

After Montag can’t stand Millie anymore, he calls a man he met in the park and then goes to visit him in hopes of learning something about the books. On the subway, Montag openly reads the Bible and he doesn’t care if anyone sees him. This shows a lot about how he is changing. When he first met Clarisse, he was at first hesitant to even think about what she said or asked him. But now he does something he knows is very illegal because he wants to be able to take in as much as possible. I think I would be more like Faber. When Montag gets to Faber’s house he is reluctant to let him in and he doesn’t want to get caught. I think that would be me: very passionate but not wanting to really get caught. I mean, his sneakier approach is still admirable because they will learn new things that are imperative if they are serious about following thru with the plan.

Just a little note, when Montag talks about what is happening out in the world, it reminded me a little of a scene in the movie Pleasantville, when a Mary Jane asks what is outside of Pleasantville and gets blank stares from everyone, including the teacher, like there is nothing outside of their city. I imagine this would be the look on Millie’s face if Montag asked her about other people.

[bookaddict]

In this section Faber also explains the three things needed that they are lacking 1- quality of information 2- leisure to digest it 3- the right to carry out actions based on what [they] learn from the interaction of the first two.
I really liked this section because Montag begins to change, he recognizes the importance of books and searches to find someone who will help him find what he is looking for. We are told that the walls appeal to people because it tells you what to think, and it does this so quickly that your mind does not have time to protest. This does interest me, because there are so many people that tend not to question anything. People who obey everything they are told. Politicians are able to manipulate people because some people just don't want to think for themselves. Millie is a prime example of this.
Also, I liked the fact that the books were not the cure-all for society but it was more of a way to "get [them] half our of the cave."

[Isa]

That's a good point you bring up, bookaddict, that books are not magical - they're just pages of paper brought together on which people have recorded thoughts, feelings, observations; they show truth, they show life, they talk of things passed that people want to cherish or fear, and always remember.

And as Faber explains, the main difference between books and walls is that they don’t shout at you constantly, and they don’t keep going when you need a moment to reflect. You can always put a book down to think about what you’ve just read, to think about whether you agree or disagree with it and why. As we saw when Montag was riding in the subway, the dentifrice commercial made it impossible for him to read, let alone think. There is not a single moment in F451 where characters are allowed to think! So basically, the reason books are so important in the novel is because they represent everything that used to be good about life.

I also liked when Montag said "when you’ve nothing to lose, you run any risk you want". As Faber points out, that's the kind of stuff books are made of, and I think that at this point Montag begins to understand that what's in book is actually in him too and in everyone who takes the time to stop and think.

[Dominique]

I've been quite slack with this book club book, which annoys me because it's one of my favourites. I was going to borrow my boyfriend's copy to do it but then he's lost it. I promise to finally track down a copy soon and join in better.

I think Faber's dialogue on books is really interesting, and agree with everything you guys have said about it. With books it's important that you have time to digest, to reflect and think over your own life and how you relate while you chew over the ideas and themes of the book. It's a very soulful experience reading a good classic and really enjoying it. Sometimes you just want to lie around afterwards and think about it after you've finished. That much individual thought and reflection on yourself and the world you live in is not something this government wants.

[Bina]

No wonder people are killing each other, there´s no chance to think things over. It´s never just you and you´re thoughts.

[Kristie]

Montag and Faber begin to work together. With the Seashells, Faber can hear what Montag does & saves him from definite destruction when pulling out the poetry. The women seem to be so mindless, and I can’t blame Montag for feeling frustrated with them. First, they don’t seem to know how to function properly without the wall TVs on, maybe because they’re not used to actual human interaction. Then the women talk about the recent presidential election on which they admit voting for the better looking, perhaps more confident looking, man. I hate to admit it that the country is actually caring more and more about what you look like, but at least it’s not that way in our politics…not yet at least.

The poetry Montag reads didn’t seem to make any impact on me personally because I’ve read poetry a lot before and it’s not my type of writing, but Mrs. Phelps definitely felt something. I think that the other two ladies were probably somewhat scared themselves. They probably didn’t think that words could move someone to be emotional and they didn’t like that the words Montag read had such a strong affect upon Mrs. Phelps.

I definitely think it’s a good thing that Montag has Faber because otherwise, he would go with his passionate and head-strong feelings into sheer chaos. Faber and Millie actually saved Montag from great problems with the poetry reading and when Montag goes to the firehouse and Beatty begins to be sneaky, Faber keeps Montag in his own thoughts and not let him get into his head. But I find Beatty to be a somewhat interesting character. He obviously is a well-read man. I’m just wondering exactly how it is that Beatty is so knowledgeable in something forbidden. It’s clear that Beatty is far superior to the other firemen in their house, but isn’t that what they’re supposed to be preventing?

At the very end of the part, the firemen get a call: to Montag’s house. I can’t think anything but: Was it Mrs. Bowles, Mrs. Phelps, or Millie? Mrs. Bowles could have been hurt by Montag bringing to view how pathetic her life is. Mrs. Phelps (and the rest, I suppose) could have still been scared about how the poetry affected her. Millie could have just wanted to get out of being in trouble herself so turning in her own husband, which I wouldn’t put past her. And what will happen to Montag?

[Isa]

I agree with you Kristie, Beatty is an interesting character. You can't help but wonder how a man who knows so much can still go along with all this. The others don't know any better, or don't take the time to think about it, but what's his excuse?

In that part of the book, I was fascinated by Montag's intellectual development. Like on p. 92, when he realizes he's been taking Faber's advice for granted and not thinking for himself. Or his reaction when he hears Millie's friends talking. Actually, the part where Millie's talking with her friends about how you shouldn't cry if your husband dies seemed pretty tragic. The same thing with how they handle their children - just put them in the TV room, it's like doing laundry?!? All the characters are so emotionally detached, does love only come with reason? You would think that because they never take the time to think about what goes wrong they would be happily in love ever after, but it clearly doesn't seem to be the case.

[czarval]

This part worried me the most when I compared it to the world now. Isn't that how a lot of people deal with their kids now? Put them in front of the TV. Technology has given us more time, but we're expected to fill that time with more things.

I think the characters realize something is wrong with their lives, but they don't know what or how to fix it. The wrong-ness has probably become so...I want to say ingrained but I don't think its the right word...over time that no one really remembers what things could be like. I'm taking a class called "Children's and Young Adult's Services", and yesterday we talked about all the things reading does for kids. It teaches language, cultural history, social interaction, empathy and relating to others. Things that Millie and her friends don't really seem to have.

[Kristie]

I agree with you, czarval, about how we like to just plop our kids down in front of the TV. I don't really like that, although there are programs that can teach children valuable things. If Americans (for instance) actually played with their kids, I doubt so many people would be so "obese" or out of shape. Little kids are very energetic, and I think it'd be good for all kids to have interaction with their parents that is fun and "educational" at the same time.

[Isa]

Shall we move on?

[Kristie]

Moving on...

Many things happen in the section of the book. Beatty tells Montag that he’s known for a long time that he had books. He mentions that he sent the Hound to investigate and he even ignored alarms about his house from Millie’s friends earlier, but once Millie called it in he went. Beatty is Montag’s biggest threat because he is smart, but by being smart he’s breaking a law, so to speak. Beatty has a nice short soliloquy on fire and its beauty and components. Then he makes Montag burn down his house. I find it interesting that Montag gets so much pleasure out of burning his house, especially things that reminded him of his estranged relationship with Millie like the separate beds and her TVs.

When Montag kills Beatty, I wonder why Beatty didn’t really do anything to stop him. Later Montag realized that Beatty wanted to be killed. But I don’t really understand why he would want to die? Did he feel guilty that he had read a great many books in his day? Did he really love the books and not want to burn them anymore? I just can’t figure out why exactly.

I’m glad that Montag finally killed the Hound, even if it injected some of its poison in Montag before he did. Montag didn’t really fear Beatty like he did the Hound and I think that was because he knew that Beatty was a man just like him whereas the Hound was a machine and practically perfect in its purpose.

I find the whole journey from his burning house to Faber’s to be an interesting one. He finds out that war has been declared and he wonders the same thing I would’ve thought “Why would they put so much into finding him if there’s a war?” He manages to kill another person, the fireman’s wife Mrs. Black. I don’t know how easy this plan will work. Montag had to sacrifice one of 3 remaining books to be able to put in an alarm for the house. So he has 2 books left. How much can he do with just 2? Burn only 2 more houses down? Where will he get more books to use? But when he reaches Faber’s house, Montag can’t believe all that he has done within the last week that he wouldn’t have thought about two weeks ago. He realizes his potential to make a difference in the world and goes at it with all his being.

When Montag gets out of the river after having floated down it a while, he feels no emptiness like he did when he was in the city. I could imagine how empty it would feel to not really know your spouse and to have a hollow house with nothing comforting and a redundant job. But to be able to get full on just being out in nature and sort of being one with everything there is around you; I don’t know if that would fill me up like it did to Montag. But that may just be because he had rarely been in nature without lots of buildings and technology and hassle whereas I can do that anytime I want.

We have 1 more part to talk about after this one...

[Isa]

I agree that once Montag started burning his house down, he sort of renewed with that early feeling he had, that fire was powerful and liberating - he destroys everything that could remind him of his life with Millie, and then moves on to Beatty. While I was reading the book, I also thought that Beatty was doing everything he could to provoke Montag so that he would turn the flamethrower on him. I'm also not sure as to why he wanted to die - could he be because he was jealous of Montag's quest? Did he feel trapped having all this knowledge and not being able to use it? Or perhaps he saw himself as an obstacle and deep down he really wanted Montag to go forward with his plan? I don't know, what do you guys think?

That part of the book really made me think about what lies outside of the city. For example, they're at war, but against who? Is the same thing happening all over the world of is it just in this country? You can't help but feel like the journey down the river could lead Montag to an entirely different world, if not physically then at least spiritually.

I agree with you Kristie that all these events have helped Montag realize that he can bring change about. I also like how he keeps on thinking, as though he was training his out-of-shape mind back into shape. On p. 142, as he goes down the river, he makes up a story about living on a farm with a lovely girl, and somehow I don't think he's used his imagination a lot before in his life so it's great to see he's acquiring new mental powers.

Can't wait to finish the book now!

[bookaddict]

I think Beatty felt trapped, and helpless. People's actions sometimes can not be explained, and in his case I think he didn't see an option. He was very knowledgeable and I think he hated burning down Montag's house and wanting to be killed was his escape.
I liked the sense of hope at the end of the book, and the fact that the intellectuals live. They're sacrifice helps them in the end.

I'll post more when I get home from school.

[Isa]

Shall we wrap this up?

I thought it was interesting to see how, in the last part of the book, Montag discovers yet another characteristic of fire - it not only destroys, it also gives life (sounds like something out of Survivor!). He realizes this as he encounters the group of men who are warming up by the fire. And this, of course, coincides with Granger's story of the phoenix. In the context of this novel, do you think it's fair to say that the "phoenix" is the war? That by burning the city down to the ground we might hope that when it rises again, everything will be better? And if so, do you think this is what Bradbury was wishing for when he wrote this book in the aftermath of WW2?

At the end of the novel I was again reminded of how books can come across as a symbol of immortality. You would think that words on paper can easily disappear, as it happens at the beginning of F451. But when you write a book, a part of you never dies. History also lives forever through books. And I think this is what these men - and now Montag - who have all memorized books, represent: salvation and immortality.