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Post by bookaddict on Nov 10, 2006 19:54:43 GMT -5
Chapt 10-15 I think that it is instinct with Grenouille, and because it's instinct he cannot control it.
When Baladini is trying over and over again to get the imitate the perfume, it seems like the perfume works against him, "He could hardly smeel anything now, the volatile substances he was inhaling had long since drugged him". Grenouille on the other hand works with the perfumes, he understands them and knows them so well that he hardly needs to smell them to know what they are.
Again, Suskind wants the readers to feel bad for Grenouille, and understand that he cannot control his "talent". He goes to Baldini's shop "Just as a musically gifted child burns to see an orchestra up close or to climb into the church choir where the organ lies hidden." p 68. When he gets to the shop he feels like he belongs there. That is especially important since he hasen't had a place to belong. He never belong anywhere, with his mom, priest, wetnurse... When Greouille makes the perfume and Baldini is amazed, Baldini forgets for the first time ever to say his prayers that night. Suskind makes it seem that Greouille has an amazing power or people.
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Post by Dominique on Nov 12, 2006 18:11:31 GMT -5
Chapters 11-15 . I can honestly say that I felt sorry for G when I thought he was going to be used to his gifted nose by a bitter old man. Does Suskind want us to feel bad for G at this time? Or is that just me who's feeling a bit of sympathy towards him? I didn't really feel that sympathy for G, because I felt a sense of foreboding that G is going to kill him off later in the book. It was like he just nearly escaped, if he had sold his business that little bit sooner he would have never come in contact with G, but now he's invited G into his business setting, I think, the wheels in motion for a fatal catastrophe.
G seems even more groutesque in these chapters as we see another character's reaction to meeting him, he also seems somewhat nuts with the storaxstoraxstorax repeating bit. The descriptions of him furling and unfurling into himself are really creepy.
I thought it was interesting how B describes G as "a fanatical child trapped inside a young man" one of those "unapproachable, incomprehensible, wilful little prehuman creatures, who in their otensible innocence think only of themselves, who want the whole world to subordinate to their despotic will."
G never really had a conventional childhood with a mother or father figure, and he is stuck in a childlike state now. If you think about it he really is like what B describes him as, it's children who often get obsessed over what they want, fantasize (well not really fantasy in G's case because it becomes a reality but that's B's opinion of his aims at this time) about what they can do to the world, and believe with a child-like innocence that the whole world will bend to their will if they just want it.
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Post by bookaddict on Nov 13, 2006 19:44:46 GMT -5
Chapter 16-20
So in these few chapters there is a lot of description of what's going on. Baldini buys Grenouille from Grimal. Both Baldini and Grimal believe that they have made the best deal of their lives. Grimal ends up dieing and it somehoe seems that Grenouille is at fault for this. If he was not bought, then Grimal would not have gotten so drunk and fallen into the water. It's aldo strange that he floats down the river that in underneath Grenouilles new place of residence.
Again, there is the analogy of Grenouille as the tick. "Grenouille rolled himself up into a little ball like a tick" p 87
The perfume becomes very famous. I wonder if everyone think Baldini is making it, or do they know that he has a new apprentice. This is not clear to me. Baldini tries to teach him formulas and how to measure. This is more for Baldini's sake then his, but Grenouille masters the formula and uses it to his advantage.
When Grenouille can not figure out distillation he falls ill, and miraculouslyis healed within a week. I'm not sure about the illness, I don't understand why he gets ill twice almost dies, and then is healed. Does it show his power or his determination? I'm not sure. What does everyone else think?
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Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
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Post by Kristie on Nov 13, 2006 19:55:54 GMT -5
It was obvious Baldini was going to buy G from Grimal, but I definitely wasn't expecting Grimal to die. It just goes to show you what can happen when you give a deprived person something so powerful as money and it burns a hole in their pocket and they just have to spend it on alcohol. I didn't feel that G had anything to do with Grimal's death. I found it odd that as soon as he was gone, Grimal died. You would've thought his life would have been better after he was rid of G, but no.
One thing I don't get is something about Baldini. He said the Pelissier wasn't a true perfumer because he didn't know the art of perfumery. But then Baldini does is even worse than Pelissier. At least Pelissier is making his own concotions, but Baldini is just taking G's perfumes and passing them off as his own. So in reality Baldini is the one falling deeper into unrespectableness (is that a word?). Baldini did nothing but teach G how to measure things because that way it was easier for himself to copy down the recipe and make more later. I'm pretty sure people thought Baldini was making all these wonderful scents himself, but some may have noticed he'd taken on a new apprentice. If I knew both, I would've thought that the apprentice was doing the real work because he just came and so did Baldini's so called "revelation."
I don't think G falls ill because he can't figure out distillation. I think it's more because he can use distillation to get a scent from everything. He knows what he's doing, but he feels/knows there must be other ways of extracting a scent. When Baldini tells him the 3 other ways, G gets a lot better and becomes healthy again. It's almost as if his life depended on his ability to extract smell.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Nov 14, 2006 19:29:18 GMT -5
Don't know if it's a word, but I like it I thought it was ironic the way Grimal died - it's the second person (after his mother) that dies not exactly because of Grenouille, but in relation to him. I agree that Baldini needs to teach Grenouille how to use measures and instruments, but it's not only because he wants to reproduce the perfumes, I think it's also because he wants to "reduce him to a formula". He is amazed and a bit scared by Grenouille's talent but if he can get it all in numbers and measures, which is something he understands, he won't feel as overpowered and impressed by him. Grenouille perceives that and makes stupid mistakes on purpose, just to fool Baldini into thinking he's his superior. But very soon, we see that Grenouille derives an advantage from Baldini's teaching, which comes back to a point that was raised before, that Grenouille never really lets anyone take advantage of him - he only stays if there's something in it for him too. The passage that says that Grenouille was trying to rob things of their scented souls again points out the evilness in him. It is clear that if he were any other kind of maniac, like Sade or Bonaparte as it says at the beginning of the book, he would be raping or killing people and everyone would know about him. But for the moment, apart from killing the young girl, his crimes are much more subtle. The first paragraph that describes Grenouille's disease at the beginning of Chapter 20 is soooo disgusting! It's as though Suskind really wants the reader to be repulsed by Grenouille, just in case we had already forgotten the nasty scars and black spots on his face. And once again, irony is at work: it's the second time that Grenouille's disease results in improved living conditions. And yes, it could very well be that through his falling ill after not being able to capture certain smells and then getting better when he finds out there are other ways to do it, Suskind wishes to put forth Grenouille's stubborness/determination/fixation - that's a very good point!
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Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
Posts: 7,214
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Post by Kristie on Nov 16, 2006 19:14:46 GMT -5
just to mention: when i was reading this and saw something about the marquis de sade, i was like "where have i heard that name before?" and i thought of the movie quills. anyone seen it? it's really weird, sorta creepy weird like this book is actually. but yeah, that's where i had heard of sade.
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Post by Dominique on Nov 16, 2006 19:34:56 GMT -5
I haven't seen it but I've always wanted to
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Post by bookaddict on Nov 16, 2006 19:37:10 GMT -5
I haven't seen it either.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Nov 16, 2006 19:48:46 GMT -5
I've got the DVD at home, I really like that movie! Geoffrey Rush and Kate Winslet are really, really good in it. Have any of you read a novel by Sade? I've read a few, it's... hum... different, to say the least! Verrry graphic, it's almost like reading porn instead of looking at pictures in a magazine.
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Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
Posts: 7,214
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Post by Kristie on Nov 16, 2006 19:53:21 GMT -5
interesting...maybe i'll try one (not because it's like porn but because it sounds like something i've never read before) which did you read?
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Nov 16, 2006 19:57:11 GMT -5
I read Philosophy in the Bedroom for a class in college, then I read Justine after watching the movie Quills. I've got The Crimes of Love at home, and eventually I might dare read The 120 Days of Sodom!
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Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
Posts: 7,214
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Post by Kristie on Nov 16, 2006 20:27:16 GMT -5
i was reading the article on wikipedia for marquis de sade (yeah, perhaps not very accurate but whatever) and i there's this illustration from the book juliette and from that i would much rather just read, not see, what he writes
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Isa
Administrator
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Post by Isa on Nov 16, 2006 20:33:27 GMT -5
lol, I know, the guy had a problem for sure!
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Post by bookaddict on Nov 20, 2006 21:55:38 GMT -5
Chapter 21-25 In these chapters we have Baldini letting go of Grenouille. Grenouille promises to never come back to Paris or make the perfumes. WE also know that his oath means nothing to him, and he would break it if he had to. He does not believe in the saints, or the soul of his mother. Baldini dies, and the 'heir' to his fortune is left with nothing, when the house gets washed away. Again, Grenouille is not directly involved with the death, but every time he walks away from someone death comes to them. I find it very interesting.
When Grenouille goes out into the world, we find out that he wants to get away from humans. He finds a secluded mountain where in any direction he walks it is closer to humans. I get the sense that he is like a caged animal. When he searches for food, he is a stalker at night. The chapters give him animal qualities. At the same time he is not like an animal because his only gratification is odors. I feel like he is trapped because he does not belong anywhere. He is not like a human or an animal. He is by himself, and alone in the world.
What did you guys think?
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Bina
First novel published
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Post by Bina on Nov 21, 2006 10:15:08 GMT -5
I think that´s what makes him so creepy and difficult to accept. He behaves like an animal mostly and his crimes could be excused as instinct but of course he is human and therefore responsible for his actions. He murders the girls for his perfect perfume which in the end he uses to entrance other people, to manipulate their emotions toward him. Grenouille wants to be recognized as a human being but not as an equal.
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