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Post by Carma on Jan 21, 2008 10:03:37 GMT -5
I think some girls just have it in them to act like a mother would, no one really learns to become a mother, I think it's the instinct of a woman... I personally don't get Brionys reaction to the letter. She emidiately thinks Robbie is a bad guy, while I would see him more as.. ehm.. dirty.. But maybe it's the time it takes place in? I'm actually not sure what part I'm reading now.. so I might be a bit behind..
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Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
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Post by Kristie on Jan 21, 2008 10:20:27 GMT -5
I guess you guys are probably right, about Cecilia just having the instinct of knowing how to be a woman. Maybe she also could remember where her mother went wrong, and tried not to behave the same way.
I agree with you, Carma, about Briony's reaction to Robbie's letter. I too probably would've seen it as dirty, not bad. Now, if there was a threat in the letter, which she might have interpreted it as, then I would see it as bad.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Jan 21, 2008 17:25:24 GMT -5
I think you're right Carma, Briony probably reacted this way because of the time period. Remember that this was a time when D.H. Lawrence was considered not a talented author but a perverse pornographer - it should therefore come as no surprise that the one word should strike Briony as being incredibly violent, a word that could only be used by someone who was profoundly deranged. It also didn't help that her cousin Lola confirmed her fears by calling Robbie a "maniac"...
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Lu
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Post by Lu on Jan 23, 2008 3:30:53 GMT -5
Lola definitely didn't help...and I can't stop thinking Robbie gave Briony that letter by mistake.. I loved Ian McEwan's writing in this book. My favorite part was the description of how the mirror wouldn't let Cecelia pass, while she was wearing the first few dresses she tried on. I thought that part was gorgeously described, and so true! I have mirrors in my apartment that sometimes don't let me pass in a particular outfit. I really liked that part too, it also reminds me of the mirror hang about in front of my room's door on the way to the kitchen, lol but I usually don't pay much attention to it. I agree with Kristie's thoughts about the matter. I like this part better than the first one, especially because of the chapter focusing on Emily, Robbie and Cecilia. It was interesting to see the house by Emily's point of view, how she thought she could know what was going on there just by hearing. It is interesting how, towards the end of this section, McEwan states, "Her childhood had ended..." (that being Briony's of course). It was an intriguing statment because it got me to thinking. Briony is no longer a child because of what she had witnessed, but in most instances something that Briony actually does would make her an "adult". I don't believe she really becomes an adult when she rips down her poster like she believes...maybe it just doesn't really symbolize much for me. But then, what she witnessed was interpreted completely wrong because she's so naive. So, what she witnesses makes her an "adult" but what she interprets just further shows the gap between child and adult that is present in her mind.
I agree with you that even though Briony no longer feels like a child, her subsequent actions prove that she is far from being an adult yet. I saw the destruction of the poster as a symbol of lost innocence more than the end of her childhood... I do agree.
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Post by Carma on Jan 23, 2008 4:47:08 GMT -5
Can I just say i really can't stand Briony... I can probably understand how she feels, that she's lonely and wants something exciting to happen and that she has a wilde imagination, but I just can't stand her. So I don't really like to read her parts... I'm beginning to get more into the book, I'm past part 2 now... and it starts to read a lot better
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sagedautumn
Collection of short stories bought by Random House
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Post by sagedautumn on Jan 23, 2008 7:43:20 GMT -5
I will vouch for you! I can't stand Briony either although I can't say I don't know where she is coming from. I am the oldest of three kids. Me and my sister like Cee and Leon are very close in age (about a year and a half apart) similarly the age difference between my brother and I is about 8 years. Over the years I have noticed how some of the stupid things he has done were just attention seeking. McEwan makes it very clear that Leon and Cee have a very close relationship, they are very attuned to each other. Briony doesn't fit into this relationship, in many parts she seems like a beloved neighborhood girl rather than their sister. So ya, even though she can be extremely obnoxious I can understand where she is coming from!
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oureternity
Collection of short stories bought by Random House
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Post by oureternity on Jan 23, 2008 7:44:41 GMT -5
I felt like this too carma, I think that was McEwan's intention really, she was supposed to be this annoying spoiled bothersome girl, also in the movie I hated her more than ever lol. It's like she's described like this blonde blue-eyed girl, and you think her looks might be decieving and she'd look like this cute little girl but in the movie she wasn't this cute little blue-eyed girl, you could see she was a little drama queen.
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sagedautumn
Collection of short stories bought by Random House
You Might Need This!
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Post by sagedautumn on Jan 23, 2008 7:48:35 GMT -5
She looked like the devil child in some parts of the movie. Like she was possesed or something!
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oureternity
Collection of short stories bought by Random House
bam.
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Post by oureternity on Jan 23, 2008 7:51:56 GMT -5
Yeah and I found her eyes rather scary, she had this evil look everytime she was seeking for something! I don't know if anyone noticed but she was also freakingly skinny!
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Jan 23, 2008 8:46:32 GMT -5
I think this may include some spoilers, read only if you've finished Part 3 of our discussion (the entire Part 1 in the book)
I actually like Briony's character, maybe because like sagedautumn, I can totally understand where she's coming from. I think if anyone is to blame, it's the policemen for believing the words of an impressionable 13-year-old. That Briony should read more into the letter than there actually is is one thing, considering her young age and inexperience, but that the police should also think Robbie is a prime suspect based on that letter is ludicrous.
Another character I feel for is Emily - I know she's described as this rather absent mother, but it's not like she's a hypochondriac, those migraines she's suffering from really seem to have taken a toll on her life. She's only 46 years old and yet there's so much she can't do and enjoy anymore - it's like every day she lives under the threat of an attack coming, so she has to take all sorts of precautions, including shutting herself up in the dark for hours on end, just so she can spend a few hours with her kids, that's pretty sad.
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Post by Hazy on Jan 23, 2008 13:34:43 GMT -5
I don't like Briony either.. not because she is a drama queen, but because she knowingly willingly lied to the police. It doesn't matter what her intentions were. The officer said "you saw him like you see me" and she said "yes". It's not like she is a small child and doesn't know the difference. She is 13. She had the comprehension of the question and lied anyways. That really made me angry!
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Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
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Post by Kristie on Jan 23, 2008 14:10:26 GMT -5
I don't really like Briony either, probably because she reminds me of my younger sisters at that age (and sometimes at their present ages). I agree with Isa about how the police took her word on something that was very serious, but I still don't like her much. Like Hazy said, she said she saw Robbie as if in light which is untrue. I haven't yet finished the third part, but I will for tomorrow and maybe I'll have some more to say.
Isa, I agree about Emily really having a physical ailment. I probably overlooked that she was in real pain before.
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Lu
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Post by Lu on Jan 23, 2008 17:18:46 GMT -5
I think this may include some spoilers, read only if you've finished Part 3 of our discussion (the entire Part 1 in the book)I actually like Briony's character, maybe because like sagedautumn, I can totally understand where she's coming from. I think if anyone is to blame, it's the policemen for believing the words of an impressionable 13-year-old. That Briony should read more into the letter than there actually is is one thing, considering her young age and inexperience, but that the police should also think Robbie is a prime suspect based on that letter is ludicrous. I often felt Briony very annoying but I do agree with Isa, I think the policeman is really blameworthy.
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Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
Posts: 7,214
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Post by Kristie on Jan 24, 2008 16:57:19 GMT -5
I can't believe everyone else believed Briony so easily as well. Not just the policemen. Honestly, the way she was describing Robbie's attack on Cee in the library only sounded like an attack because she was biased. Obviously Cee would have a different story, and if she didn't confirm it was an attack then the police should've believed her over the 13-year-old who walked in on it. One's left to wonder what would've happened if Cee had told what really happened. Obviously the outcome for Robbie would still be bad, but he wouldn't've gone to prison because it was consensual. But I doubt Cee's father would've let him live so near her any longer, or helped him with school costs. (Despite all of this, Briony was annoying, but I think I might like her when she's older in the later parts of the book.)
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Jan 25, 2008 8:00:22 GMT -5
I agree with you Kristie, at this point in the book, it's really hard to understand how Briony's testimony could have been taken so seriously by everyone... seems to me like everyone should have read right through her story. The only explanation I've got so far is that they all knew very well what happened, and knew Briony wasn't telling the truth, but they were only thinking about saving Cecilia's honour because of what happened in the library. That would explain why Robbie HAD to be the one who did it.
Isn't it weird how Emily was sort of able to predict what was going to happen when she compares Lola to Hermione and thinks she'll somehow end up "stealing the show"? And there's so much that's left unresolved at the end of Part 1: What happened to the twins? If Robbie didn't do it, who did it? What will happen to Lola? Guess I'm gonna have to read on!
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