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Post by Dominique on Jan 17, 2008 5:58:17 GMT -5
I read it as Bry nee just because a girl I work with's name is spelt and pronounced that way.
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oureternity
Collection of short stories bought by Random House
bam.
Posts: 1,568
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Post by oureternity on Jan 17, 2008 13:07:23 GMT -5
I thought it said Brah-io-nee
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Post by Carma on Jan 17, 2008 13:35:56 GMT -5
I pronounced it like: Bre-oh-ni , sort of in the dutch way..
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Post by bookaddict on Jan 17, 2008 17:27:17 GMT -5
I was looking at the readers guide for Atonement, on bookclubs.ca. This is one question that I wanted to comment on.
"What kind of a person is Emily Tallis? Why does McEwan decide not to have Jack Tallis make an appearance in the story? Who, if anyone, is the moral authority in this family? What is the parents’ relationship to Robbie Turner, and why does Emily pursue his conviction with such single-mindedness?"
I'm in between with Emily. I want to hate her, but I also feel sad towards her. She is confined to her bedroom due to migraines and she tries to hold tight to her family. She imagines that she still has authority and tries to use it every time she has the chance. When she is amazed that she no longer has a migraine, she creeps around until she is sure that she is feeling better. It's as if she is trapped by herself. She has no idea what to do. Here is where we learn that she listens so carefully to the household, that she tries to play out what everyone is doing in the house. She hears Briony leave the house, and wonders why. She hears a man in the children's playroom and through the process of elimination she tries to figure out who it is. When her son comes home, she is trapped in her room and she needs to wait out the migraine. At the first opportunity she tries to be a mother again. She is concerned about their dinner and she tries to fix the diner plans at the last minute. Even though she is being impractical. I think it's more Emily trying to be a mother, and trying to have an active role. She needs to see Briony and fix what is bothering her. She has to do everything in the small amount of time that she has. Cecelia seems accustom to this and tries to smooth things through. She really wants her mother to feel wanted and needed. I think Emily pursues Robbie's conviction because she knows she lacks being a parent. It is her chance to prove that she can be a mother for Briony. That she trusts Briony. Cecelia says nothing in the house. Emily feels guilty because her children spent a lot of time with Robbie, and if he was a rapist she would never have known. She was hardly ever around.
Jack Tallis is not an active father, his phone calls are is only way to be a part of the family. He performs his fatherly duties over the phone. Even when he is home, he spends his time in the library. Jack funds Robbie's education. I'm not sure how Jack has this relationship with Robbie, when he barely has a relationship with his own children. Does Briony feel jealous that her father pays attention to Robbie? I think Briony is fighting for attention.
If anyone has any moral authority in the house it is Jack Tallis. His children act on his words, whereas they try to pretend to act on Emily's words. They pretend just to make Emily believe she has a role.
This is just one question I was looking at. Since I lent my book out, I'm afraid to comment on a different part of the book. I leave others respond and then i'll comment more...
I've been thinking about the letter. Why was Cecelia so accepting to the letter? Why does she not question it, or be confused by Robbie's words?
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zeldafitzgerald
Collection of short stories bought by Random House
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Post by zeldafitzgerald on Jan 18, 2008 8:22:44 GMT -5
I think that first question you posted is very interesting. I didn't think about the fact that with Jack Tallis gone, the house does lack any true leader, since Emily seems to be frequently ill and unavailable. I'm not really sure why Cecelia is so accepting of the letter. I read an interview with Keira Knightly in Entertainment weekly and she said the director did research before filming about whether Cecelia would be a virgin or not. Apparently it's very possible that Cecelia would not have been a virgin at the start of the book, because she went away to college. Obviously there's no real way of knowing but if she wasn't, if college had given her more experience, then she may have been more comfortable with the letter, especially since she's realized she wants him too. I loved Ian McEwan's writing in this book. My favorite part was the description of how the mirror wouldn't let Cecelia pass, while she was wearing the first few dresses she tried on. I thought that part was gorgeously described, and so true! I have mirrors in my apartment that sometimes don't let me pass in a particular outfit.
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sagedautumn
Collection of short stories bought by Random House
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Post by sagedautumn on Jan 18, 2008 8:41:42 GMT -5
In the book, and this might be a SPOILER for those who haven't read far enough, when Robbie and Cee are about to consummate their relationship in the library McEwan states that outside of watching movies and reading books Cee had no experience at all about sex while Robbie had only second-hand experience from what other men had told him
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oureternity
Collection of short stories bought by Random House
bam.
Posts: 1,568
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Post by oureternity on Jan 18, 2008 10:22:27 GMT -5
I was wondering if any of you watched the movie, I watched it today and it was literally amazing.
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sagedautumn
Collection of short stories bought by Random House
You Might Need This!
Posts: 1,509
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Post by sagedautumn on Jan 18, 2008 13:26:27 GMT -5
Haha! I am going with a friend to watch it in a couple of hours and I am very Excited!
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oureternity
Collection of short stories bought by Random House
bam.
Posts: 1,568
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Post by oureternity on Jan 18, 2008 14:53:45 GMT -5
Oh have fun! (I'm sure you will
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zeldafitzgerald
Collection of short stories bought by Random House
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Post by zeldafitzgerald on Jan 18, 2008 18:59:55 GMT -5
In the book, and this might be a SPOILER for those who haven't read far enough, when Robbie and Cee are about to consummate their relationship in the library McEwan states that outside of watching movies and reading books Cee had no experience at all about sex while Robbie had only second-hand experience from what other men had told him Oh good point! I completely forgot about that (I read the book a few months ago, so I'm trying to comment based on memory. I need to dig the book out to look back at I think.) I wonder why they spent so much time trying to figure out if she was a virgin for the movie then? If it said right in the book..... I saw the movie, but I didn't like it at all. I know others did though. It just was completely underwhelming to me, especially the end.
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inrain
First poem written for Mother’s Day
Here's to my love... Thus with a kiss I die...
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Post by inrain on Jan 19, 2008 1:34:08 GMT -5
Hey everyone, this is my first book that I'll be a part of the discussion.. So when I start to read this book, it was kind of hard for me to read it through.. I've started reading books in English since the beginning of last year, and this book is the hardest one to read. The writer uses sooo many complex words for my vocabulary. It's like the classic books that I try to read but can't understand.. So that's why it took me so long to get into the story and make a progress.. But as most of you mentioned after the fountain scene, the book captured my attention and everything I've read before had started to make sense.. The characters are so well-defined I love each one of them.. But for now Briony has more power on me than other characters in the book. She is searching something excited, something adulty(my creation=) She reminds me of my childhood when I was digging our home to find some secret treasures.. She looks for the events which are excited and writable about and I was looking for some objects to discover the unknowns about our house.. I remember I've found some health encyclopedias which freaked me out about people's unseen lives.. So I can tolerate Briony's self-centered behaviors a little more.. I have a sense that she might become an understanding little person at the end of the book, hope I'm not wrong =) About the movie, I'll definitely watch it after I finish the book, but I'm sure the book will be 'the one' which I care more..
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Isa
Administrator
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Post by Isa on Jan 19, 2008 11:52:43 GMT -5
Nice to hear from you, inrain!
I found that Part 2 (Chapters 6-10) was easier to read, though I'm still struggling at times with McEwan's very elaborate style. He did make me laugh out loud however when he wrote "As for Clarissa... it surely proved the case of Paradise Lost in reverse - the heroine became more loathsome as her death-fixated virtue was revealed." I had to laugh, because I still remember thinking "Won't you die already?" quite a few times as I was reading it. ;D
I enjoyed reading the chapters that focussed on Emily, Robbie and Cecilia, but I think Briony is still the character that captivates me the most. I love how she's portrayed as standing at the edge of childhood, and one little thing is all she need to start going down towards adulthood. That one little thing seems to come in the form of Robbie's letter, and I can't wait to see where it takes her. Being much younger than her siblings and having limited parental guidance, she doesn't have much other than her imagination to help her figure things out. On to Part 3 now!
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oureternity
Collection of short stories bought by Random House
bam.
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Post by oureternity on Jan 20, 2008 8:09:28 GMT -5
I saw the movie, but I didn't like it at all. I know others did though. It just was completely underwhelming to me, especially the end. Really? I felt like certain parts of it weren't executed in the most proper way, but in general I thought it was a great movie, after all it was hard to really stand up to the requirments of the book, especially because of McEwan's way of presentig the scenes. I agree with you Isa, Briony's role in the book was fascinating, especially the turning point in her life from being a spoiled beloved child to an independent mature young woman. Although I can't really say that Cecilia and Robbie fascinated me any less, I thought their part was crucial and also interesting in its own way.
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Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
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Post by Kristie on Jan 20, 2008 16:50:36 GMT -5
Zelda, I really liked the scene where Cecilia couldn't pass the mirrors, too. It's interesting because she seems to be a woman who knows what she wants and is very headstrong, but to let a little thing like appearance get to her shows she does care what others think (just like many people can do). And then it also brings into question who exactly she was getting all worried about seeing her in her outfit. I always assumed it was Robbie she worried about because the fountain scene brought to the forefront of her mind her mixed feelings towards him. But she also is playing hostess since Emily lacks authority, so she could be dressing for that part.
In this section, there's a quote saying, "Briony had always required mothering from her older sister." But where did Cecilia learn to be motherly. True, she was so many years older than Briony (about 10 years I think), so she was fairly old before Emily started getting her migraines and did have a little experience with mothering from her--however, at the age of 10, would you really know how to be a mother towards a baby, then a toddler, then a young child? Where did Cecilia get her motherish attributes?
As a little note, I think Lola is very fake and Emily has the right impression about Lola being like her mother (Hermione).
It is interesting how, towards the end of this section, McEwan states, "Her childhood had ended..." (that being Briony's of course). It was an intriguing statment because it got me to thinking. Briony is no longer a child because of what she had witnessed, but in most instances something that Briony actually does would make her an "adult". I don't believe she really becomes an adult when she rips down her poster like she believes...maybe it just doesn't really symbolize much for me. But then, what she witnessed was interpreted completely wrong because she's so naive. So, what she witnesses makes her an "adult" but what she interprets just further shows the gap between child and adult that is present in her mind.
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Isa
Administrator
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Post by Isa on Jan 20, 2008 18:43:33 GMT -5
In this section, there's a quote saying, "Briony had always required mothering from her older sister." But where did Cecilia learn to be motherly. True, she was so many years older than Briony (about 10 years I think), so she was fairly old before Emily started getting her migraines and did have a little experience with mothering from her--however, at the age of 10, would you really know how to be a mother towards a baby, then a toddler, then a young child? Where did Cecilia get her motherish attributes? I can't really give you an answer, Kristie, but I can share my own experience: my sister is 9 years older than I am and from the time she was about 16, she did start looking out for me the way a mother would. I can't really explain where it came from and I'm not sure that she could either, I guess she just had it in her, being the eldest child and knowing that our parents weren't always around to take care of me properly. It is interesting how, towards the end of this section, McEwan states, "Her childhood had ended..." (that being Briony's of course). It was an intriguing statment because it got me to thinking. Briony is no longer a child because of what she had witnessed, but in most instances something that Briony actually does would make her an "adult". I don't believe she really becomes an adult when she rips down her poster like she believes...maybe it just doesn't really symbolize much for me. But then, what she witnessed was interpreted completely wrong because she's so naive. So, what she witnesses makes her an "adult" but what she interprets just further shows the gap between child and adult that is present in her mind. I agree with you that even though Briony no longer feels like a child, her subsequent actions prove that she is far from being an adult yet. I saw the destruction of the poster as a symbol of lost innocence more than the end of her childhood...
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