Lu
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Post by Lu on Nov 29, 2009 16:19:21 GMT -5
I really like this novel, I'm also glad I read it and I think it should be more valued. Good post, Isa. I too found interesting their struggle between the soldiers and the men. I was also particularly struck by how the author depicted both Kat and Paul's deaths, after all the dangers they survived... The end of the book also made me realize how sadly ironic the title " All quiet on the Western Front" is. It was very sad to read about Kat's death, especially because of the narrator's feeling of loneliness. All his friends are gone, and he knows full well that even if he makes it through the war, there won't be anyone out there he'll be able to connect with. I was reading an article about 3 American soldiers who were convicted for murder after they got back from Iraq - they weren't friends before the war, but when they got back they felt the need to be together because they couldn't relate to anyone else (they were suffering from post-traumatic stress syndrom). They started drinking and smoking pot to dull the pain but of course it only made things worst, and eventually they became violent and killed some people in the Colorado Springs area. I couldn't help but think that in the US there currently is that lost generation, young men who might never be able to lead a normal life again. It's so sad to think that no matter how many books are written, men just go on making the same mistakes over and over again... That's so very sad. The soldiers' discussion about the reasons of war was also interesting (I think it was chapter 9), I think it's a current debate and the fact that men keep making the same mistakes, support their opinion that war is useful to somebody. Sad.
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Post by Carma on Dec 1, 2009 6:26:41 GMT -5
Wow.. this book.. I am gonna recommend it to so many people! I am glad I read it.
I also found the struggle between men and soldier very interesting. I think when all of the deaths really hit me, was when Leer died. I was hoping for at least someone to survive.. and I guess Kropp did... maybe.
I do 'like' that the narrator dies at the end. I think it was the best way for the writer to end the book. There was no nomal life left for Paul, after he had been through the war and had lost all his friends... Even though it is sad... He did leave his life with a content look on his face. What did you guys think of the ending?
I was wondering what happened to Tjaden, cos he was never mentione again, but when I googled it I found out he survives and has a role in the sequal of this book; The Road Back.
German soldiers are always depicted as the bad guys, especially during the second worldwar. I think it's easy to forget that there are actual people fighting the war. And some of them might really be the bad guys. I think a lot of them are just like Paul and his friends. I actually felt bad for the Germans and thought the french and brits and us soldiers were horrible. But it works both ways, they are all just people.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Dec 1, 2009 7:10:35 GMT -5
I think I know what you mean, Carma. It was easy to feel sorry for the German soldiers because they were starving and dying, whereas the Allies had plenty of food and back-ups. It didn't make me want to picks sides, but I guess it opened up my eyes as to what the Germans went through.
I think the death that moved me the most was Kat's. Maybe because of how tragically it is portrayed, with Paul (takes a while before we learn the name of the narrator, I wonder if that's because the author wants us to feel like this could have been anyone of the thousands of soldiers involved in the war?) doing everything he can to save his friend's life because he's afraid of being alone...
The end was beautifully sad. For a while, since they were getting so close to armistice, I was hoping that Paul would survive and would go on to write a book about the war to denounce what was going on, a bit like what Remarque did himself. I read somewhere that the fact that Paul dies on a day during which "all is quiet on the western front" reflects how unsignificant the death of only a few soldiers had become during the war. When we hear on the news that 6 people have been killed in a car accident, it's a tragedy. But during the war, dozens of human beings could die, and it would still be considered a quiet day...
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Post by Carma on Dec 1, 2009 8:04:03 GMT -5
I agree Isa. We hear about deaths in the news all the time, how tragic they are. Especially when someone is murdered. While we do get news from 'our boys' in Afghanistan (or any of the other places they are) when they die. It's usually not as wide spread in the media as the other deaths that happen right here. It's like it's normal, which I guess it is... (takes a while before we learn the name of the narrator, I wonder if that's because the author wants us to feel like this could have been anyone of the thousands of soldiers involved in the war?) Actually, we find out his name on the second page. Kat's death moved me the most as well. It's just that after Leer died, it hit me that there really weren't going to be a lot of survivors...
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Dec 1, 2009 8:27:31 GMT -5
(takes a while before we learn the name of the narrator, I wonder if that's because the author wants us to feel like this could have been anyone of the thousands of soldiers involved in the war?) Actually, we find out his name on the second page. lol, I completely missed that! That's why I kept referring to him as "the narrator"
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Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
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Post by Kristie on Dec 9, 2009 11:36:13 GMT -5
"He knows that it won't be possible for him to go back to a normal life after the war because no one can live with all those awful memories. It also reminded me of Gertrude Stein referring to the young men coming back from WWI as "the lost generation", because they were unable to work, unable to engage in real relationships, they were merely drifting and drinking the remainder of their life away..." Isa: I really like this passage that you wrote. I have one of my favorite quotes from the section that goes along with this. It's on page 171 for me, in chapter 7: "when I see them here, in their rooms, in their offices, about their occupations, I feel an irresistible attraction to it, I would like to be here too and forget the war; but also it repels me, it is so narrow, how can that fill a man's life, he ought to smash it to bits; how can they do it, while out at the front the splinters are whining over the shell-holes and the star-shells go up, the wounded are carried back on waterproof sheets and comrades crouch in the trenches. They are different men here, men I can not properly understand, whom I envy and despise." I just think this quote goes with what you said. This quote and the passage in chapter 6 about the battle are both going to be included in my WWI unit when I teach it in January
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Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
Posts: 7,214
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Post by Kristie on Dec 9, 2009 11:40:18 GMT -5
I also feel bad for Kantorek and the way Mittelstaedt treats him. I agree with Isa that he is not much better than Himmelstoss.
I have to agree with both of you. I did feel bad for Kantorek.
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Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
Posts: 7,214
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Post by Kristie on Dec 9, 2009 11:48:15 GMT -5
When the narrator returns to the training camp, I think we can see the effect that his leave has had on him. Already, he can't think of the Russian prisoners as enemies - instead, he sees human beings who have developed strong friendships, just like he and his fellow soldiers. I think this will make it hard for him when he goes back to the front.
Isa: I agree with this. I think Paul will have problems seeing his enemies as enemies when he returns to the front. They are people with friends and families just like him. They're just all fighting for different causes. This also reminds me of one of my favorite passages from the section. I think I quotes once already about how the people who declare war never actually fight. This quote goes along with it. It's page 195 for me in chapter 8: "a word of command has made these silent figures our enemies; a word of command might transform them into our friends. At some table a document is signed by some persons whom none of us knows, and then for years together that very crime on which formerly the world's condemnation and severest penalty fell, becomes our highest aim."
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