zeldafitzgerald
Collection of short stories bought by Random House
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Post by zeldafitzgerald on Oct 26, 2008 22:21:43 GMT -5
I think the optimist in me hopes that Charlotte is happy even with Mr. Collins. I really like Charlotte as a character, and hope for the best for her. I think that they have found a good balance, and he is happy to have a wife and companion, and she's happy to have her own home and good situation. I agree with Isa, my first reaction was also to believe Mr. Darcy completely. Probably because I'm outside the novel and Elizabeth is inside it though. The first time I read the book I was so delighted to read the letter, so happy that Mr. Darcy was turning out to be an admirable man. Q6 - Oh dear, I'm getting this mixed up with the movie! In the movie it's Miss Bingley who goes into a ton of detail on what accomplished truly means, and Mr. Darcy only adds "extensive reading" to the list (and Elizabeth is reading). In terms of the question though - and this is just my wild speculation - I like to think that he has never been around anyone like Elizabeth before - someone who is intelligent, a great companion and person, funny, wise, etc, who wasn't accomplished in the traditional way. Additionally, probably many of the "truly accomplished" women he does know (like Miss Bingley) are a bit odious. Also, I don't think he ever says he <i>prefers</i> accomplished women to non-accomplished ones, so that could also contribute to his affection for Elizabeth. Q7- There was a little discussion of this in my annotated edition that I just re-read. It seems that Colonel Fitzwilliam exists to advance the plot a little (with what he tells Elizabeth) but also there could be more....he could also serve to exemplify that Mr. Darcy is a truly good person and a gentleman, based on who he's friends with. In other words, in addition to Mr. Bingley (an excellent man), Mr. Darcy is also very close with another upstanding man, Colonel Fitzwilliam. It's also evident how much Fitzwilliam admires and respects Mr. Darcy, another indication of Darcy's true character.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2008 10:41:50 GMT -5
7) I agree with zelda. Fitzwilliams purpose in the book is to tell that Darcy is a good person. And he needs to tell that to Elizabeth who tries to figure put what kind of man Darcy really is.
Wasn't Darcy's name Fitzwilliam or is my memory compeletely wrong?
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Lu
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Post by Lu on Oct 27, 2008 11:40:53 GMT -5
Wasn't Darcy's name Fitzwilliam or is my memory compeletely wrong? You're right. The Annotated edition says: "Darcy's first name is his mother's maiden name (his mother having been the sister of Colonel Fitzwilliam's father). This was a common practice for eldest sons in aristocratic families, especially when, as in this case, the mother came from a titled or very wealthy family. It allowed the man himself to reveal the prominence of his descent on both sides, and it allowed the mother's family to perpetuate their own name to a degree through tha female line"I found this so interesting. I agree with zelda as well. Elizabeth thought that Mr.Bingley didn't know anything about Wickham or just believed what his friend told him because he's, like Jane, so kind and good-natured, this is not the case with Colonel Fitzwilliam...I mean, I'm not saying he isn't kind and good natured Elizabeth clearly had a very good opinion of Colonel Fitzwilliam and his esteem of Mr Darcy probably struck her more than Mr.Bingley's (who likes almost everyone btw ).
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Oct 28, 2008 6:44:13 GMT -5
Darcy's first name is his mother's maiden name (his mother having been the sister of Colonel Fitzwilliam's father). Cool, I never realized I had that in common with Mr. Darcy (my first name also is my mother's maiden name!)
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Oct 28, 2008 6:59:36 GMT -5
A6) I agree with you Zelda, I don't think Darcy really cares about marrying a so-called accomplished woman, I think he'd rather marry an intelligent woman who can speak her mind. I think his comment on extensive reading was directly aimed at Elizabeth, who as you mentionned happened to be reading a book that night and pretty much got laughed at by Caroline because of it. It's funny because when you read the book knowing what's going to happen, you can't help but think Elizabeth was a little slow picking up on all the hints Darcy was so desperately dropping!
A7) I've always been puzzled about Colonel Fitzwilliam's role in the novel, mostly because my first impression was that there might be some attraction between him and Elizabeth at first, but of course it never led anywhere. It's true that he serves as a character reference so to speak, and in the old discussion Kristie and I talked about how Colonel Fitzwilliam's immediate friendship with Elizabeth might have made Darcy a bit jealous, which led him to make that rather awkward marriage proposal to Elizabeth. Because it's really not like him to act in such a spontaneous way and that proposal clearly wasn't rehearsed!
Q8) Mr. Darcy grew up in the country side and although he has a house in town, he still visits Pemberley quite frequently. So why does he seem to take such a dislike of Hertfordshire and its "confined and unvarying society"?
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Lu
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Post by Lu on Nov 4, 2008 15:08:08 GMT -5
A8) I never thought about that, interesting question! Perhaps Pemberley neighbours are different from the Netherfield ones...or Darcy simply enjoys more Pemberley because it is his own home I think there's something about this subject somewhere on the annotated edition but I'm not sure, I'll look for it. I steal a question from the old P&P thread ;D : Based on P&P, do you think Jane Austen can be described as a feminist writer or not? I also read on my English Lit school text that Pride & Prejudice is considered Austen's most idealistic book, do you agree?
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annak
Collection of short stories published by an independent editor
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Post by annak on Nov 6, 2008 20:34:34 GMT -5
A8) I believe he dislikes Hertfordshire because its deep country. Pemberley was in a well to do type of area and it had a long history there. He probably felt that compared to his area, Herfordshire was a bit "In the sticks" if you will, haha.
You know Lu, I don't think she's a feminist writer. She wasn't looking to change anything with her writing, she simply wrote what she knew. It seems like from what I've read about Jane Austen, she was very comfortable in her situation and though she mocked it, I don't think wanted anything to change. In fact, she was very against any change in her life. I think it is an idealistic book because it's probably one of the most cheerful books. It also has a solid family base for the characters. Unlike S&S where they're father dies, Emma, where Emma has no mother, Manfield Park where she's thrown out of poverty into an adopted family.
The characters in P&P are well off, they don't have too many challenges compared to the other books and everything works out in the end.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Nov 7, 2008 8:48:09 GMT -5
A8) As I wrote in the other thread, I think Mr. Darcy's problem with Hertfordshire is that in a smaller circle, it's more difficult to go about unnoticed and he really doesn't know how to behave among strangers. In London, he can just fly under the radar and at Pemberley, he already knows everyone. So despite his comment I don't think he honestly dislikes the countryside, I think he's only saying that because he doesn't like the situation he's being put in at Netherfield. A9) You know, I do perceive Jane Austen as a feminist writer, even though she did it in a fairly subtle way - but you have to keep in mind that she wrote at the turn of the 19th century when feminism was only just emerging and was light years away from what it is today. Back then, a married woman gave up all her rights to her husband, she was stuck somewhere between an animal and a human being in that respect. That's why when Austen includes little details such as having the Bennet sisters walk and exercise a lot, which is something that is recommended by Mary Wollstonecraft in her Vindications for the Rights of Woman, she's actually making quite a statement. Also, Lizzie is obviously not your typical "accomplished" young lady - it is implied that she would rather read than spend countless hours improving her skills on the piano, as would be expected of her. She's got her own opinions and is not afraid to speak her mind, and all this doesn't prevent her from ending up with a great guy! I think it might be one of the first examples in literature of an intelligent woman's life having a happy ending Gotta go to work, I'll answer the other question later!
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sagedautumn
Collection of short stories bought by Random House
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Post by sagedautumn on Nov 16, 2008 19:37:15 GMT -5
A8.) I think Mr. Darcy's dislike of Hertforshire is not entirely because it is a small town, but that the people in the town are a lot more crass than he's used too. I will agree with Isa in believing that he doesn't hate the countryside. I think you see this err... "crass-ness" especially depicted in the movie, the men and women are drunk, dancing wildly, and talking coarsely. So I don't think it's Hertforshire just because it's country. It's Hertforshire society he dislikes!
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