Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
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Post by Kristie on Jul 20, 2009 14:15:42 GMT -5
I understand there is a serious love triangle that is coming out, and I'm guessing that this is what the rest of the book is about, but so far I am most interested in the similarities between Zeena and Mattie. The narrator is making it seem like Ethan only looked for a savior from his current situation. Zeena saved Ethan from the silence and effort of taking care of his mother. Mattie does the same thing, only with Zeena instead of Ethan's mother. I think Zeena picks up on the fact that Ethan is liking Mattie the way he began to like her, and is upset by it. I don't really know why it was that Zeena left the two of them alone at her most vulnerable time.
The thing I wonder about most is, "Does Ethan really like Mattie? Or does he only want to be saved from his situation?" I am guessing that he really does love her because, at the beginning of the story there was a woman singing at Ethan's house, which, I'm assuming is Mattie. But, obviously, I can't say for sure.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Jul 21, 2009 7:10:12 GMT -5
My feeling is that Ethan loves Mattie, and that she's the very first woman he's ever loved. I don't think he ever loved Zeena - only circumstances, and the fear of spending the winter alone in Starkfield, led him to propose to her. Since I already talked about how he somehow reminds me of Heathcliff, I guess I'd say that Mattie is his Cathy, his true passion, the one he'd do anything to be with, while Zeena is more like Isabella, the one he got married to because circumstances forced him to do so.
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Post by Hanna on Jul 21, 2009 7:51:59 GMT -5
I agree. Maybe this has been said before, but to me it seems like Mattie brings him to life, while Zeena in a way is slowly killing him, or at least killing his joy of life.
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Michelle
First novel published
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Post by Michelle on Jul 21, 2009 19:19:21 GMT -5
So I just finished the first half and I came on here to share my thoughts and found that Isa stole every single one of them. I agree about the setting and the weather. And it was The Awakening that made me realize it. I find it very interesting that we read these two books back to back. Different stories but the same. I also made the comparison to Wuthering Heights, mostly because there is the outside narrator coming in to tell the story. It does have that doomed from the start Cathy-Heathcliff vibe. I will admit that I didn't pick up on the red hair pieces, but the wedding gift shattering (and then Ethan making it look like it's still together) is definitely important to the story. I'm excited to continue reading. And I am cheering for Mattie and Ethan. I guess procrastinating on the first half kept me from wowing you with my insight. Maybe I'll try to post first for the second half.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Jul 22, 2009 6:41:01 GMT -5
So I just finished the first half and I came on here to share my thoughts and found that Isa stole every single one of them. lol, sorry about that!
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Lu
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Post by Lu on Jul 23, 2009 8:49:42 GMT -5
I wanted to reread Ethan Frome for this discussion but I haden't been able to check out a copy from library, because most of the books are still in boxes I have to say, it's my second time reading "Ethan Frome", but I think I might be enjoying it even more than the first time. What immediately struck me, especially because we read and discussed "The Awakening" not so long ago, was Wharton's use of the landscape and weather in the novel. We talked about how in "The Awakening" the heat creates a sensuous atmosphere, and here it's like the cold and snow result in isolation and despair. There's that feeling that people are trapped in Starkfield, and of course, sometimes in the winter they literally are. Something that really got to me was when Ethan was wondering if he'd have married Zeena had it not been winter - even for a strong young man as he was at the time, the idea of facing the winter completely alone seemed unbearable to him. I agree and I really liked Wharton's use of weather. I'm not sure Ethan really loves Mattie. I do think he married Zeena for fear of spending winter alone, but he's still trapped and feels like Mattie, with her good humor, brings him to life. It's funny how much Ethan Frome always makes me think of silence and winter, even if I read it in a very hectic week of summer.
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Michelle
First novel published
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Post by Michelle on Jul 25, 2009 9:09:37 GMT -5
I do get to be first for the second half. I loved this book. I read the last 60 pages this morning and I got completely lost in the story. It was heartbreaking and haunting. In the end, Ethan and Mattie got what they wanted (to never be separated) but in such a way that no one would ever be happy again. Wharton did such a great job of eliciting empathy from the reader. I felt what Ethan felt; my heart was breaking right alongside his as they drove to the train station. I despised Zeena for making everyone miserable. I felt the hopelessness that Mattie must have felt at being turned away from the only people who could protect her. This is one of those books that I wish I had read years ago. I was missing so much by not reading it.
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Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
Posts: 7,214
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Post by Kristie on Jul 26, 2009 20:05:57 GMT -5
Wharton did such a great job of eliciting empathy from the reader. I felt what Ethan felt; my heart was breaking right alongside his as they drove to the train station. I despised Zeena for making everyone miserable. I felt the hopelessness that Mattie must have felt at being turned away from the only people who could protect her. I found this really interesting. I had a lot of sympathy for Ethan in this story. You know, being stuck with a wife he doesn't really love. But then I got to thinking. Ethan is really more of a wicked character than Zeena. He's the one that wants to just leave her in her time of greatest need and he, even though it is true love, is being very selfish. I realize that Wharton wants us to sympathize with Ethan, but, in the end, I found that I was more sympathetic to Zeena's character. She, after all, fought her sickness--which, I admit, I thought was exagerrated on her part--to get better to stick with Ethan and Mattie. It would have been so easy for Zeena to have gotten well and leave Ethan--Ethan would've left her if she got well. But Zeena repaid Ethan and Mattie more than they'd ever given her.
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Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
Posts: 7,214
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Post by Kristie on Jul 26, 2009 20:11:39 GMT -5
I know a lot of you love this story, but it didn't seem that great to me. I thought that it was a more depressing version of reality. I loved the writing--Wharton is amazing--especially the characters. But the story as a whole didn't seem extraordinary to me.
I love the scene in which Zeena finds the broken pickle dish. Taken at face value, this scene could mean that Zeena prizes the dish more than Ethan. She told Mattie that she had broken what was most dear to her. However, if you take the dish to have deeper meaning--as a symbol of their marriage, as I believe Isa pointed out--the scene has a whole different meaning. That means that, while she doesn't seem to, she really does love Ethan and that Mattie was, in essence, a homewrecker. I thought it was interesting that the scene could be read as two different things, or more, and I wonder what exactly Wharton meant it to present.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Jul 27, 2009 8:56:26 GMT -5
Again, the end of the novel reminded me of the end of "The Awakening". Just like suicide seemed like the only option for Edna, crashing into that tree seems like the only option for Mattie and Ethan. In this case, however, I find it easier to understand their motive: their love is so strong that dying seems like a much better option than living apart. I really don't see Ethan as a selfish man - if he were, he would have left with Mattie. When he writes that farewell letter to Zeena and realizes there's no way she could survive without him, he feels obligated to stay out of a sense of moral duty, even if it means he has to sacrifice his and Mattie's happiness in the process. I do think that when Zeena tells Mattie she's broken what's most dear to her (in reference to the pickle dish) she is in fact talking about her wedding, but in my mind she was only too happy to have someone else to blame for it despite the fact that the marriage was broken long before Mattie ever showed up. That's why I see Zeena as the cruel, manipulative character in the story. When she tells Ethan that marrying her was the least he could have done after she took care of his parents, we realize at the same time Ethan does that she manipulated him into marrying her. She was already an "old spinster" at that time, being 7 years older than he was, and she knew very well what she was doing when she went over to his place to give a hand. I'm also convinced that she never really was all that sick - she just enjoyed playing the role of the martyr and having someone else to blame for her unhappiness... I really don't like Zeena, can't you tell?! Even if it's a really short book, it's still one of the most powerful love stories I've ever read, and the fact that Mattie and Ethan do get to spend the rest of their lives together but under these tragic circumstances makes it incredibly sad. I'm really glad I got to read it again, it's such a moving and well-written story!
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Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
Posts: 7,214
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Post by Kristie on Jul 27, 2009 14:04:19 GMT -5
It isn't only Ethan's want to leave Zeena that I feel makes him sort of selfish. I understand that you think Ethan feels it's his moral duty to stay with Zeena, Isa, but I can't help but think that he still was selfish in his action of purposefully hitting that tree. I read it as Mattie and Ethan tried to kill themselves so they could be together that way--or at least be free from Zeena. So, while Ethan didn't leave Zeena and go off with Mattie in one way, he still tried to do it in another, more drastic way. Either way, Ethan wanted to be away from Zeena.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on Ethan's character, Isa
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Jul 27, 2009 21:07:47 GMT -5
Well I guess in that sense, I think it's fair to say there is something inherently selfish about committing suicide so I can't really disagree with you there... I'm still rooting for Ethan and Mattie, though! ;D
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Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
Posts: 7,214
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Post by Kristie on Jul 27, 2009 21:16:37 GMT -5
I mean, my first impression is to root for them, too. True love should conquer all. But I just thought a bit more about what Zeena would feel and found out my first impression was not very nice. However, if I was Ethan, I admit I probably would've acted just like him. So it's not that I necessarily dislike him, I guess, but rather that I feel he was too real for a character in a story.
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