BOOK CLUB: A TREE GROWS IN BROOKLYN

[Isa]

Tentative schedule:

Books 1 & 2: Start discussion on January 11
Book 3: Start discussion on January 21
Books 4 & 5: Start discussion on January 31

[erin]

This schedule sounds good to me. Thats a lot of chapters to read in the sections.

[neveralone]

that's exactly what I thought the schedule would be when I flipped through the book! I hope I won't get behind on this book with all the school reading I have though. I'll try!

[sagedautumn]

I loved this book!!! But I still have yet to buy a copy!

[Michelle]

I started reading last night

[Lu]

I'll start tomorrow.

[Lu]

I found out last night that my Italian edition is divided into only two books, it doesn't even have a table of contents (I guess they didn't need it in 1968...). Can you help me to "translate" the schedule for my edition? The first book has 31 chapters and the second 25 chapters.
Thanks!!
I'm at chapter 13 now.

[Isa]

Here you go, lu:

Books 1 & 2: Chapters 1 to 14 (so you're right on schedule )
Book 3: Chapters 15 to 42
Books 4 & 5: Chapters 43 to 56

[Isa]

This is one of the best novels I've read in quite some time, I can't believe I waited that long to get a copy!! As soon as I began reading Chapter 2, the one about Francie going to the library, I knew I was in for a treat. I think we can all relate to Francie's love of books, and I really enjoy how this theme comes back at different points in the novel. Although I've never been to Brooklyn, the descriptions are so vivid that it almost feels like I could find my way through the different neighborhoods if I were to go (but of course, I'm assuming there isn't much left of Francie's Brooklyn nowadays!).

One thing that I found interesting in this first part of the novel is the "good people vs bad people" theme. Sissy and Johnny are made out to be "bad" people - Sissy because of her ways with men and Johnny because of his ways with the bottle. And yet, they are both kind and loving, and in many ways better than the so-called "good" people in the novel. The relationship between Katie and Johnny is also quite interesting: we find out that they did love each other very much when they got married, but when Katie became a mother, her practicality took over all her emotions. It clearly was the other way around for Johnny, who's more of an artist, and whose feelings became so intense that he was driven to alcohol in an effort to subdue them. It kind of makes you wonder if Johnny could have been a better father had Katie shown more tenderness towards him. It's funny, they sort of remind me of Mr. and Mrs. Bennet when it comes time to decide who's the better parent: Johnny is obviously much more kind and just like Francie we tend to like him better (the way we prefer Mr. Bennet), but on the other hand, if Katie wasn't there to take care of her family (just like Mrs. Bennet is the one making sure that her daughters get married to avoid poverty), who knows what would happen to poor Francie?

One thing I was wondering about, how did you guys feel about Sissy's advice that Katie should accept the fact that Johnny will always be a drinker? Do you think Katie could have "broken" him? Or was it just better for her to accept it and take charge of her family?

[neveralone]

-How Francie reads reminds me of how Matilda reads in Roald Dahl's Matilda! Yet, her ralationship with her brother makes me think of Scout and Jem in To Kill A Mockingbird! I don't like the librarian at all though, she is so uninvolved. She could be very valuable to Francie, but she doesn't recognize what a rarity it is to have ayoung girl who likes to read ad much as France does.
-I like Francie's mom's coffee philosophy. Even though they are poor it is a cool thing that she allows them to be extravagant in that way. In the same way, I loved the advice that her mom gave her when she had Francie. Reading from Shakespeare and the Bible and the can bank gives them something to cling to later on when things get rough.

I'm really enjoying this book! Usually books that revolve around poor people are sob stories and really don't have much subtance. I think that A Tree Grows in Brooklyn may become one of my favorite books. I can't know that until I read the rest though

[Dominique]

I still have to get a copy of the book so I might be a bit late starting discussion

[bookaddict]

I want to first mention that I am loving this book. I’m really excited for the discussion and very glad that it was chosen as an RBC book club choice. This book has me hooked, and I can’t put it down.

“One thing that I found interesting in this first part of the novel is the "good people vs bad people" theme. Sissy and Johnny are made out to be "bad" people - Sissy because of her ways with men and Johnny because of his ways with the bottle. And yet, they are both kind and loving, and in many ways better than the so-called "good" people in the novel. ”

I think this is true. I also love the philosophy of Katie’s mother. How she sees the good in the “bad” people. She seems to understand why they are bad but realizes that they have their reasons and it doesn’t condemn them as all-around bad people.

Sissy loves men, but having no education it seems to be her way of furthering her position in life. What she wants more than anything is to be a mother. After 8 failed attempts she doesn’t know what to do. She loves children and wants to be a mother.

Johnny is a dreamer and I feel bad for him. I don’t like him more than Katie. I see the hope in Katie. Even though she has to take money out of “her” savings she always tries to put back as much as possible in hopes of one day owning a piece of land. Katie holds on to her mothers ideas of a better life. She reads Shakespeare and the bible to her children hoping that they will have a better life than her. I loved what her mother told her about the power of hope. Even though Katie is still poor, she can read and write. She is that one step up from her mother and Katie’s children can be taught to live a better life. Even if it is one generation at a time, we can learn in life to becoming more successful people. A better life doesn’t always mean right now. Although Katie struggles she doesn’t want the same for her children, just like her mother didn’t want for her.

Katie reminds me of her mother. Trying to do her best for her children. I was bothered by Katie loving her son more than her daughter. It shocked me when she stated that she would love her son more in life but her daughter would never know. It didn’t strike me and something that she would say.

“How Francie reads reminds me of how Matilda reads in Roald Dahl's Matilda!”
I had that same thought when I was reading that part. Francie’s love of reading amazes me. When Katie and Johnny were in the school looking at the maps dreaming of those foreign countries makes me believe Francie’s is dreaming of those same things in books. I love when Katie’s mother says her children must have an imagination in order to escape when things are hard.

“I like Francie's mom's coffee philosophy. Even though they are poor it is a cool thing that she allows them to be extravagant in that way.” This was also something that I loved. Everyone should be allowed to be extravagant in some way. I think it gives them the sense that things will be okay. Even though they are poor and Katie works very hard, she gives her children the benefit of throwing away that bit of coffee. Maybe it is her way of showing them that they can have more. Even though she can only allow them to through away the coffee, if they work hard they can have more extravagance in life. I don’t think it is necessarily the extravagance in life, it is the comfort and security in life.

“One thing I was wondering about, how did you guys feel about Sissy's advice that Katie should accept the fact that Johnny will always be a drinker? Do you think Katie could have "broken" him? Or was it just better for her to accept it and take charge of her family?”

I don’t agree. I feel Johnny slipping into depression. He struggled from the beginning with caring for his family. Katie is holding the family together. At the end of book two he mentions that this will be his last home. I think Johnny knows that Katie is independent and doesn’t need him. At the beginning her love for him made him feel important. It made him feel in control, and that all slipped away when Katie stood up for her family. He says he never wanted a family and he could have married the other woman. Katie swooned over him and made him feel important. I think he feels useless. He disappointed his mother and now his wife. Francie loves him but the book mentions that she doesn’t realize his failures at this point. She still sees her dad as a hero. While Johnny is succumbing to the hardships, Katie is trying to persevere. She is a proud and hardworking mother. Katie is not the immigrant her mother was, she has learned from her mother's hardships and is determined to learn from her own hardships.

What do you think of Katie not allowing Francie to go to school until her brother can start with her?

[Michelle]

I am loving this book as well. I've wanted to read it for a long time and I'm glad this has forced me to finally pick it up.

Betty Smith has done such a good job painting the picture of Francie's life for us. Her description of people, places, and the way things were are incredibly detailed. Like Isa, I feel like I know this little part of turn of the century Brooklyn.

I like Mary's thought that if parents can give their children all of their knowledge and then a bit more, each generation will be more successful. This is what the American dream is all about, right (funny that the American Dreams cigarette box played a negative role)? The families left their homes in Europe where their children could never rise above their current status with the hope that now they can. I think this is one thing that hasn't really changed much. Parents still do everything they can for their children and think of them first so that they can have a better life.

Good vs Bad people
I think this is interesting because what we really find out is that everyone has a little of both. Johnny drinks, but he also loves his family. Katie does what is best for her children, but neglects her husband in the process. Sissy acts inappropriately toward men but obviously cares for Francie and Neely more than anything. They all try but end up messing things up in some way.

School
I think I like the idea of Francie and Neely starting school at the same time. THey are only a year apart and Francie will probably do better with her brother there since she struggle making friends. But maybe it's the product of wanting the education more for the boy and not really worrying about how waiting will affect the girl.

I'm nervous to see what happens. The last chapter ended in such a way that makes me anxious for Francie and the inevitable loss of her father (and we already know that he only lives for 4 more years). And the can of money makes me nervous - I'm so afraid something is going to happen to it.

Can't wait to keep reading.

[bookaddict]

Jan 11, 2009 19:38:26 GMT -5 Michelle said:

I am loving this book as well. I've wanted to read it for a long time and I'm glad this has forced me to finally pick it up.

Betty Smith has done such a good job painting the picture of Francie's life for us. Her description of people, places, and the way things were are incredibly detailed. Like Isa, I feel like I know this little part of turn of the century Brooklyn.

I like Mary's thought that if parents can give their children all of their knowledge and then a bit more, each generation will be more successful. This is what the American dream is all about, right (funny that the American Dreams cigarette box played a negative role)? The families left their homes in Europe where their children could never rise above their current status with the hope that now they can. I think this is one thing that hasn't really changed much. Parents still do everything they can for their children and think of them first so that they can have a better life.

Good vs Bad people
I think this is interesting because what we really find out is that everyone has a little of both. Johnny drinks, but he also loves his family. Katie does what is best for her children, but neglects her husband in the process. Sissy acts inappropriately toward men but obviously cares for Francie and Neely more than anything. They all try but end up messing things up in some way.

School
I think I like the idea of Francie and Neely starting school at the same time. THey are only a year apart and Francie will probably do better with her brother there since she struggle making friends. But maybe it's the product of wanting the education more for the boy and not really worrying about how waiting will affect the girl.

I'm nervous to see what happens. The last chapter ended in such a way that makes me anxious for Francie and the inevitable loss of her father (and we already know that he only lives for 4 more years). And the can of money makes me nervous - I'm so afraid something is going to happen to it.

Can't wait to keep reading.

I was thinking the school thing was due to Katie still believing that Francie is a child that needs protection. She was such a sick baby and her brother so healthy.

[Isa]

The fact that Francie had to wait an extra year to go to school seemed pretty normal to me because my grand-mother did the same with my mother. My mom was really sick as a child, so my grandma decided she would start school at 7 instead of 6 so she could walk to school with my aunt who was a year younger. I'm guessing it was a pretty common thing to do at the time?