Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
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Post by Kristie on Nov 18, 2007 16:12:59 GMT -5
I agree with you there, dorothy. It's better once you've gotten used to it.
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dragonfly
First poem written for Mother’s Day
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Post by dragonfly on Nov 20, 2007 7:12:08 GMT -5
Although stream of consciousness is not new to me as a technique (I had to try and read Joyce's Ulysses once for a lit class. Boy, that was really hard! Didn't get very far. ), I, too, find Woolf's style both fascinating and demanding at the same time. I have to really concentrate and read closely in order to follow the story and the characters' thoughts. What particularly confuses me is the way she suddenly jumps to seemingly random people in the street or in completely different locations just for a moment and then on to the next one. Just one example: There was a short scene with a man standing in front of St Paul's, wondering if he should enter and watching that airplane pass. What did you guys make of that/him? I didn't really understand his thoughts. On the bright side, I find Clarissa Dalloway a really interesting character. More so than I expected, actually. As somebody pointed out before, a woman that age is a very unusual "heroine", especially if that heroine keeps musing about love and sex and her semi-lesbian(?) relationship with a friend, even if it was many years ago. Elderly people, even today, are often portrayed as basically asexual beings. But at the time the novel was first published (in the 1920s) this must have been quite scandalous, don't you think?
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sagedautumn
Collection of short stories bought by Random House
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Post by sagedautumn on Nov 20, 2007 15:29:37 GMT -5
Yes, I found the relationship between Sally and Clarissa very very interesting! It was almost amusing knowing that this is a 50 year old women thinking about her unrequited love with her friend. I wanted to know if Sally felt the same way Clarissa did. Externally, it seemed that she was completely fine with how things turned out, she has three kids, but I am not completely sure that she was fine... While I was reading Mrs. Dalloway, I myself was wondering how this story got away without much of a scandal...Sure people complain about the whole stream of consciousness thing but other than that the book didn't seem to have the public backlash as it did for many books that dealt with sexual relationships. Even straight relationships like in Lady Chatterley's Lover there was a huge public outcry...So i wonder why Woolfe wasn't banished from the literary community like Oscar Wilde and such...E.M Forster did not publish his novel Maurice until AFTER he died!!
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Nov 23, 2007 11:31:22 GMT -5
You guys are right, it is a bit strange that the novel didn't seem to cause that much of a scandal. Anyone knows why?
On to Part 2 now:
I don’t know if it’s because I’m getting used to Woolf’s style, but I found this second part easier to read and enjoy. It seems to me like we’re really getting to know the characters and I’m growing very fond of them. Peter is quite interesting: even though the whole point of his visit to London is to arrange a divorce for Daisy, he is obviously not in love with her. Through him, we get to know a bit more about Clarissa. We understand how she was brought up, and how it would make perfect sense that she would choose to marry Richard – she’s a woman of the world and she plays by society’s rules. We get the sense that she is more intelligent and has more feelings than she is allowed to display as an upper-class wife, and this is what Peter dislikes. But would she really be better off not living by those rules? Clarissa is an interesting mixture of sadness and happiness; while she is not fulfilled, she is satisfied with her life. Behind all his criticism, however, we can feel Peter’s love for Clarissa.
When the story went back to Septimus and Lucrezia, I found it interesting to see how Woolf introduced to topic of mental illness, especially considering her own problems and how she ended up committing suicide. Even today, people feel more comfortable talking about cancer, diabetes and HIV than they do talking about mental problems. Post-traumatic stress syndrome in soldiers is still largely misunderstood and often dismissed, so I can’t imagine what it must have been like to suffer from it back then. When Woolf talks about Dr. Homes recommending a healthy diet and some amusement, I think she’s trying to explain what’s happening to her, and how it feels not to be understood or taken seriously. Again, I can’t wait to read more!
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Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
Posts: 7,214
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Post by Kristie on Nov 24, 2007 16:33:41 GMT -5
Part 2
I definitely like how this part of the books is focused on developing Peter and Septimus as characters in the larger scheme of things in the rest of the story. It's amazing how Woolf was able to discuss the post-traumatic stress that Septimus is suffering from, and it's still really common in war veterans today. It's probably one of the most misunderstood stress syndromes because it's hardly likely anyone else could understand what you're going through unless they themselves were war veterans. I'm glad Woolf finally explained that war was the reason Septimus had begun having dillusions and schizophrenia.
I was really interested in Peter's history of his and Clarissa's lives. I can see why Peter is upset that Clarissa as a person is hindered by her place in society, not allowing her to be her true self. I also feel that Peter truly loves Clarissa and that's why he doesn't resent letting her go, he just resents letting her make herself miserable--he wanted her to be happy and so he let her go, but it didn't turn out the way he'd imagined. Or maybe he was smart...he could've known that Clarissa wouldn't be happy with Richard and would eventually love him back the way he has loved her for a long time.
I'm really loving this book, and I'm finding it hard to believe it didn't cause a scandal like many of you.
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Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
Posts: 7,214
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Post by Kristie on Nov 29, 2007 13:25:21 GMT -5
Why does Woolf show such a different variety of women throughout the work? There are women from many classes and backgrounds, but few men. The men Woolf portrays are all of similar backgrounds and class-status. Why the difference in portraying men and women?
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sagedautumn
Collection of short stories bought by Random House
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Post by sagedautumn on Nov 29, 2007 20:34:45 GMT -5
I felt her approach quite novel! If you look at most books of that time most heroines were cast as the typical damsel in distress. It was refreshing to see a woman who, although internally indecisive, was portrayed externally as a confident and uncharacteristically ambitious woman.
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Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
Posts: 7,214
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Post by Kristie on Nov 30, 2007 15:16:27 GMT -5
Part Three
I have to say that I think this third section was my favourite part of the book. A lot of the significant details center around Rezia and Septimus (my favourite characters). It's odd that Rezia acknowledges Sir William is a different sort of doctor then Septimus' first, but then refuses to behave to his prescription. I think that if anyone I loved was having problems like Septimus, I would want them to get help. Why is Rezia so afraid of being separated from Septimus? Is it because she's selfish and doesn't want to be away from him? Is it because she'd be alone in a country that's probably still somewhat foreign to her? And it's also interesting how Septimus goes about stopping Sir William from separating themselves--by flinging himself from a window. It's very ironic that he would choose to permanently separate himself from Rezia rather than temporarily. Their weirdness is what makes them my favourite characters.
I really like how periodically Woolf will mention Big Ben chiming the hour. It helped keep me in the mindset that everything that happened is going on in a single day. What a day it's been...
I find it intriguing that Miss Kilman says (or rather thinks), "The most worthless of all classes--the rich." In a way, I can understand what she's saying. The wealthy can have servants wait on them, and so they're being capable to do anything for themselves isn't shown. Also, the wealthiest people nowadays (ie movie stars, athletes, etc) are only worth something because we like to watch them do stuff. If we didn't feel the bother to pay to see them, they would be worthless (in so many words...no human is completely worthless). Oftentimes, those who work the hardest and more dangerous jobs don't get the recognition they deserve and they're definitely not worthless. Anyways, any thoughts on that statement from anyone else?
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Dec 1, 2007 0:01:35 GMT -5
Why does Woolf show such a different variety of women throughout the work? There are women from many classes and backgrounds, but few men. The men Woolf portrays are all of similar backgrounds and class-status. Why the difference in portraying men and women? That's a really good point you raise, Kristie. As sage said, female characters were often sort of stereotyped in 19th century novels, and it's as though Woolf is turning this around by portraying men who are for the most part very similar, while the women are all different, strong, independent characters. It's easy to see how Mrs. Dalloway came to occupy such an important place in essays and books on feminist literature! I'll do part 3 when I get back home!
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Lu
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Post by Lu on Dec 1, 2007 10:13:30 GMT -5
Part one:I've noticed that this is the part I remembered the most about, even before starting my re-reading. I totally agree with Isa and I can easily picture myself walking and thinking about a bunch of different things too, exactly like Clarissa does. I also like the moment Clarissa walks into the flower shop and the constrat I felt between what she's thinking while opening the door and the description of her entrance...I remember that I wondered a lot about that scene last time I read it, I wondered if that description is the way she thinks she's looking or she actually looks that way...hope it makes any sense...I don't know how to explain it. I also really like the minor characters Woolf introduces and the way she does that, I think it's wonderful. I think Rezia is a very interesting character. Part two:I like Peter as a character but I felt easier following Clarissa's thoughts than his. First time I read Mrs. Dalloway I started to feel a great curiosity for Richard and just look forward to see him acting in the novel, and this time it's the same. I agree with Isa about the topic of mental illness, I had the imression Woolf is trying to explain what happened to her. Part three:I don't know if it's to be due to the translation but..is the first description of Dr.Bradshaw and his wife kind of ironic?? Or I see irony everwhere... I like so much Rezia and Septimus and I'm glad they have a bigger part in the novel than other minor characters (maybe that's because of Septimus's illness?), I love when Rezia is working on the hat for Mrs. Peters and Septimus give her advices and they laugh together, they're so sweet...and that makes even more sad the end of part 3. I know Mrs. Dalloway is very different from Middlesex, but Dr. Holmes and Dr. Bradshaw kinda reminded me of Dr. Luce. I really like how periodically Woolf will mention Big Ben chiming the hour. It helped keep me in the mindset that everything that happened is going on in a single day. What a day it's been... I really like that too.
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Lu
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Post by Lu on Dec 1, 2007 10:15:57 GMT -5
Why does Woolf show such a different variety of women throughout the work? There are women from many classes and backgrounds, but few men. The men Woolf portrays are all of similar backgrounds and class-status. Why the difference in portraying men and women? That's a really good point you raise, Kristie. As sage said, female characters were often sort of stereotyped in 19th century novels, and it's as though Woolf is turning this around by portraying men who are for the most part very similar, while the women are all different, strong, independent characters. It's easy to see how Mrs. Dalloway came to occupy such an important place in essays and books on feminist literature! I agree. I haven't realized it before..it's definitely a good point, Kristie!
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Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
Posts: 7,214
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Post by Kristie on Dec 1, 2007 14:22:59 GMT -5
I must admit, I didn't think of it wholly myself. My edition has a few questions for reading groups in the back, and this was similar to one of them. But it's an interesting point to think about.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Dec 2, 2007 10:09:59 GMT -5
Oh cool, are there any more good questions?
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Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
Posts: 7,214
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Post by Kristie on Dec 2, 2007 13:35:42 GMT -5
Yeah, there are more. I'm at work, so later I can post some more of them. I'll try to make sure I don't ask any if they're about the fourth part, just so it doesn't give anything away.
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sagedautumn
Collection of short stories bought by Random House
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Post by sagedautumn on Dec 4, 2007 15:57:57 GMT -5
Mine does to. Sadly I am at school and I don't have my copy with me either!
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