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Post by Dominique on Oct 9, 2007 19:20:19 GMT -5
Book Two Ok I just finished this section last night. I must say I'm getting very curious about this "Chapter Eleven" character. What a strange thing to do, call a character by a chapter throughout the entire book. I've been tempted to go forward and read chapter eleven before I'm up to it because of this mysterious character.
I thought the seduction via clarinet was kind of cute and very true to life of the kinds of flirty things kids do. It's interesting reading the backstory of all the relationships that led to Cal's state, but now we seem to have done that and I'm looking forward to the next book probably being more about Cal's life.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Oct 10, 2007 8:29:56 GMT -5
I don't know if it's because we had that discussion before but what stood out for me in Book 2 was how I felt like a puppet in the narrator's hands. It's like the book is written in such a way that I'm led to feel whatever the author wants me to feel. I guess I should have applauded when Desdemona decided to pull back from Lefty - after all, that was the smart thing to do - but instead I only felt pity for the poor man who was becoming estranged from his wife, you see what I mean? And again, I thought it was fascinating how Cal seems to know about everything that went on before he was even born. At some point he writes that "real life doesn’t live up to writing about it", is this just an expression or could this be a hint that he's only making up a story with what knowledge he has of his parents and grand-parents to explain his condition?
I'm also excited to read about Cal's own story and find out what the deal is with Chapter eleven!
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Post by Dominique on Oct 10, 2007 9:32:42 GMT -5
I'm confused because the chapters aren't numbered and the eleventh one doesn't seem to have anything particularly special about the character chapter eleven in it, very odd! I agree, we do just accept everything as he presents it. I guess that's probably why Eugendies chose to tell the story as a first person recount; so that we just accept what the narrator tells us. It's interesting to think about perspectives because I don't think such confronting issues could be presented as compassionately from a third person perspective for instance. I felt sorry for Lefty too I was a bit like well, you've already made the decision and gotten married what's the point in pulling away? Especially after she had her fallopian tubes tied. I kind of felt like well the damage has already been done so her pulling away from the person she was closest to all her life at that stage was sad.
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Post by bookaddict on Oct 10, 2007 19:06:38 GMT -5
This book really had me curious. Desdemona and Lefty come to America, and they meet Sourmelina. She quickly finds out who Lefty's new wife is, and i'm so shocked at how she took the news. I understand she had a secret of her own, and for that reason Desdemona knew she'd keep the secret but Sourmelina's overall reaction was nothing. I can't believe she just accepted it and that was that. She asked who proposed and laughs it off by saying "just when [she] left things get interesting." I just find this odd.
Cal talks about how coming to America has helped his grandparents leave the past behind, and it is less and less about them being brother and sister and more and more about them being married. The narrator also focuses less on them being sibling and more about them being his grandparents. Desdemona is terrified of having a baby who is deformed after Dr. Philobosian talks about intermarriage and the genetic defects of children. This passage seems alittle ironic to me, but it didn't bother me too much. It's just weird that they talk about this after seeing each other again... Desdemona's fear is very real, she risks her relationship with Lefty by not wanting anymore children. She pushes him away because she fears for any future child's life. Each pregnancy is more unpleasant then it is exciting or loving. While Desdemona pcushes her husband further away the children begin to treat him as a "familiar relative, an uncle maybe, but not a father." This is Cal's way of reminding us of the reality of their situation. Every time the book goes on, Cal always reminds us about who they really are. There's so much to discuss about this book...
This book was really good. I'm now on to the next one, and i'm really enjoying it!
I wonder if Desdemona ever worries about her son and daugthers realtionship. I wonder if it ever crosses her mind that they would end up like her and Lefty.
Another thing that I keep wondering about is Julie. Cal keeps interrupting the story to give us more and more information about her....
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zeldafitzgerald
Collection of short stories bought by Random House
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Post by zeldafitzgerald on Oct 11, 2007 7:01:15 GMT -5
Hi! Sorry I'm joining late - I've been back in Michigan twice over the past two weeks, I went home and then had to go right back for a funeral.
I've been reading Middlesex though, and loving it.
I agree with everything you all have said so far - especially about how interesting it is that the narrator makes us see things his way so easily. One thing I find interesting is how the relationships of Cal's parents and grandparents - Desdemona & Lefty and Tessie & Milton - started off as such grand romances, and then developed into marriages that were completely devoid of romance. It makes me hope that Cal will find love somehow by the end, and that it will be different than the course the book's other romances took.
At this point, Middlesex reminds me a little of The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay. Both are long (500+ pages) epic stories about people traveling to escape war and both covering long spans of time to tell the whole stories of people's lives, and the events and chances that influenced them. They also both won the Pulitzer. However, I'm hoping that Middlesex ends much better than Kavalier and Clay ended. I didn't feel as though K&C had enough payoff at the end - it was a bit of a letdown after reading so many pages.
I'm also really enjoying the fact that this is set in Detroit. I haven't read many novels set in my home state, Michigan.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Oct 11, 2007 8:34:18 GMT -5
I also thought it was interesting that the story was set in Detroit, and that so much importance was given to it in the novel. It's not a place I'm really familiar with - as you mentioned zelda, there aren't that many novels set in Michigan - but I do know a bit about its history and I think it's interesting how Cal laces it with his family's story. Every major change in Detroit somehow has an impact on Cal's family. It starts with Jimmy Zizmo moving up there to become a bootlegger, the prohibition gives birth to Lefty's speakeasy, then the end of the prohibition transforms the Zebra room into a diner, we also see the impact of the shift from white to black neighborhoods, and there's a brief mention of Malcom X... It'll be interesting to see what other events shape the story of the novel.
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Lu
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Post by Lu on Oct 12, 2007 2:49:36 GMT -5
I agree with everything you all said. I think the novel is getting even more interesting, as well as the characters, and I'm so curios to see what is going to happen. I thought the idea of starting the book just before Cal's born and then going back to the tell his granparents' and parents' stories was so great and makes me feel the end of Book 2 as a sort of turning point. I wonder if Cal/narrator will explain the meaning of the name "Chapter Eleven"..
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jessicalee
First piece published in the school’s newspaper
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Post by jessicalee on Oct 13, 2007 22:17:31 GMT -5
zelda, it reminded me of Kavelier and Clay too. Because it was about people coming to America, and a lot to do with their relationships.
This book keeps making me more interested. I was not expecting the cousins(Cal's Parents) to fall in love like they did. I really ove the way this story is told. It's weird how Cal knows so much, but I like it.
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zeldafitzgerald
Collection of short stories bought by Random House
ancora imparo
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Post by zeldafitzgerald on Oct 14, 2007 22:41:01 GMT -5
I also find it really cool that not only does Cal know so much about his family's history, he also tells both sides of each relationship with fairness and sympathy. You feel for each person in each relationship: Desdemona, Lefty, Milton, and Tessie. Both relationships, his grandparent's and parent's, have significant problems, but you can relate and empathize with each side. I think this is very significant because Cal can relate to both men and women because of his unique gender situation.
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Post by Dominique on Oct 17, 2007 21:12:09 GMT -5
Ok I'm going to bend the rules and start book three two days early before I forget what happens (also I have to take it back to the library and won't be able to use it as much of a guide. So if you haven't finished Book Three don't read this post yet.
Book Three So it basically spans Calliope's birth, childhood, puberty and adolescence and the beginning of the world discovering who and what she really is. I have to be honest and admit that while this book is essential and one of the most important parts, most of it was also my least favourite section.
I think this comes from a feeling I've just realised I've always had: a personal dislike for most stories that involve puberty, especially ones that involve phsyical changes. I think I've probably felt this since having to read them prior to and during puberty at school. I think that now it's because that I hated going through puberty and that embarassing and awkward stage of my life so much I don't like to be reminded that it ever happened. This (slightly irrational) dislike coupled with the more confronting aspets of this section made it an uncomfortable experience for me. Overall I managed to overcome this and still find it an enjoyable and compelling read, but not to admit it made me feel uncomfortable would be a little false. I hope that makes sense!
The descriptions of "The Obscure Object" reminded me very much of Lolita in Nabokov's work and of the victims in The Perfume, I really liked how Eugendies described her colouring and appearance. It's nice that when it came down to it she accepted and reciprocated Cal's affections for her, even though she may have known about her physical differences.
I had more to say but I can't think of it right now, I'll post more later.
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Lu
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Post by Lu on Oct 18, 2007 12:23:58 GMT -5
I've already finished Book 3 too, I'm going to return the book to library tomorrow; I actually can take it until the 25th but I think I'll go away for a couple of days next week.
It makes sense. I agree with you Dom, so far it's my least favorite section too. I don't have any personal dislike for that kind of stories (well, I have never had before) and I can't say I've simply started loosing interest because I was really looking forward Cal to clearly understand his "physical difference" (I'm not sure is the right way to say that..). I felt uncomfortable too, with so many confrontations! I still think Eugenides's style is so great and I really love his descriptions of the girls' school and the groups. On the other hand I didn't like some characters, such as The Obscure Object and her brother, the "new" Chapter Eleven,...and I hate Cal's uncle Mike!
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Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
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Post by Kristie on Oct 18, 2007 14:34:10 GMT -5
I'm way behind! I've not even started Book 2! Last week spending my whole time with my cousin in North Carolina really threw me off track. I'm gonna try to catch up a bit and I'll post later lol
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zeldafitzgerald
Collection of short stories bought by Random House
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Post by zeldafitzgerald on Oct 18, 2007 19:51:49 GMT -5
I guess I'm in the minority so far, I liked book 3 a lot. I found the story incredibly interesting, and after reading books 1 and 2 I was starved for actual information on what ended up happening to Cal/Callie.
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Post by Dominique on Oct 18, 2007 20:14:36 GMT -5
I didn't dislike it as a whole, but liked the other three sections better probably because they weren't quite as confronting. I agree many of the characters in it weren't very likeable.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Oct 20, 2007 8:25:32 GMT -5
I'll give you some support zelda I also really enjoyed Book 3. First, I like how, as it was brought up earlier in the discussion, events in the book continued to be tied in with what was going on in Detroit and even back in Europe. The riots drastically changed Cal's family's life, and then their trip to Europe was cancelled because of the war and that allowed Cal to go to the Obscure Object's summer house, and we all know how defining a moment that turned out to be. About the whole puberty thing, the only thing I could think about as I was reading book 3 was how mind-blowing it was that a man (the author) could understand so well what's going on in the mind and heart of a teenage girl!
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