Isa
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Post by Isa on Sept 19, 2013 6:35:33 GMT -5
This doesn't add to the discussion per say, but I just watched the movie version of "A Farwell to Arms". I thought it was pretty good, as long as you don't expect it to be anything like the novel. The story follows the plot pretty closely, but I thought the tone was entirely different. It mostly comes out as a Hollywoodesque love story, no doubt because it would appeal to a wider audience that way, especially in the 1950s. I can easily imagine young women swooning over Frederic and Catherine's intense, pure and beautiful love (that's how it's portrayed in the movie). And may I add that Rock Hudson was one hunk of a man!!
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Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
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Post by Kristie on Sept 19, 2013 15:51:38 GMT -5
I haven't seen that movie, though I've seen a few Rock Hudson movies (with Doris Day). He was quite the hunky man. I've heard that his sexual preference was well known in the 50s in Hollywood, so I've always thought well of him for letting that be known at a time when such things weren't as openly discussed as they are now.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Sept 22, 2013 5:35:35 GMT -5
I thought Book III was the part of the novel that focused the most on the war, and we can see how it's taken its toll on the characters: it seems like we're a long way away from the time Henry and his friends would just worry about finding something to eat in the middle of an attack when he meets with Rinaldi and the priest. The priest is somewhat hopeful, as a priest ought to be I guess, but Rinaldi is upset and angry. He' had to work non-stop to take care of the wounded, he can no longer remain oblivious to what's going around him. He no longer drinks to be merry, as in the old days, but to shut everything up and forget.
The long drive through the mud has disastrous consequences, and the way it's written, I thought Hemingway did a good job of making it sound just as bad as if the characters were thrown in the middle of a battle. Soldiers get shot, but what might make it worst is that instead of happening very fast the way it does when you're under attack, there's time to describe how each death happens, time to think about how unfair it is or how it might have been avoided. Stylistically speaking, I thought that was very well done.
At the end of Book III, Henry bids his farewell to arms when he escapes by jumping in the river. As the chapter ends, he safely reaches the shore and starts thinking about Catherine, which makes us hope that the water has symbolically washed away from his mind and soul all of the violence and atrocities he witnessed during the war (Hemingway converted to Catholicism just a couple years before the book was published, so I think we can compare this scene to a baptism of some kind).
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Michelle
First novel published
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Post by Michelle on Sept 24, 2013 8:17:19 GMT -5
Hi ladies, I'm a bit behind again. Trying to catch up.
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Bina
First novel published
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Post by Bina on Sept 27, 2013 15:40:40 GMT -5
Me, too. Uni is killing me
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Sept 28, 2013 7:08:37 GMT -5
I kinda feel guilty for having so much time to read these days compared with you guys I was able to finish the book some time ago, so I hope it's OK if I stick to the original schedule before I need to return it to the library. One thing that struck me in this section was the contrast between how guilty Frederic feels about deserting the army, and how carefree he is about Catherine's condition. It goes against people's reaction since he actually gets a lot of support for leaving the army - most people he runs into are against the war and some even go so far as to help him escape, which seems to indicate he's made the right decision. However, when he gets reunited with Catherine, nurse Ferguson scolds him for getting Catherine pregnant and not getting married. When she sees that they both seem more than OK with the situation, she bursts into tears. This section sort of lays the ground for the final book in which we know that Catherine will have the baby. The section ends on a light and cheerful tone, with the rather comical argument between the two Swiss guards about whether it would be better for Catherine and Henry to go to Montreux or stay in Locarno to do the winter sport. I thought the tone of this chapter was very different from the rest of the novel, as though Hemingway wants the reader to believe that Catherine and Henry have a bright future ahead of them now that they've reached Switzerland and have thus officially left the war behind.
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Lu
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Post by Lu on Sept 28, 2013 10:21:42 GMT -5
I kinda feel guilty for having so much time to read these days compared with you guys I was able to finish the book some time ago, so I hope it's OK if I stick to the original schedule before I need to return it to the library. Isa, enjoy the reading without feeling guilty! I haven't finished book 4 yet (almost there!!) but I want to share a few thoughts anyway. I like how the end of each book serve to shift the focus of the story. As you guys said, the language struck me as well and it took me a few pages to get used to it. It was easier when I read the book in Italian years ago. Speaking of language, I find really funny the misspellings of italian words. I don't remember how (or if) they translated those in the italian version, I'll check. I liked the first part and the descriptions, I'm always curious when it comes to depictions of WWI because my great-grandfather died on the Alps in WWI. I liked book 1, even though I didn't care much for the main character or any of the others, except maybe the priest, I feel sorry for him. Have you noticed that most of the Italians tell Frederic to go and visit the places where they come from, as the priest does when he tell him to visit Abruzzi. It's very realistic, we do that! Now I'll read the older posts and join in the discussion! Finally!
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Lu
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Post by Lu on Sept 28, 2013 10:32:29 GMT -5
I have to admit that until the last couple of chapters in the first section, I was rather bored. I agree with Isa about how the description of the setting hardly makes it seem like the country is at war. I didn't really like that though. I guess I took it as the narrator having had an easy time of it, with the war so far, since he deliberately skipped over any possible reference to the war. It might be weird that I was rather uninterested in the book until the blood and guts made an appearance I think that I had expected references to the war to be made from the beginning. Now I wonder if there was a reason behind Hemingway's writing--what was the purpose of easing us into a novel about war by skimming over the gruesome parts? Or was there really no other reason? The book was published well after WWI ended (about 10 years, or so), and I feel like he didn't need to really tiptoe around the reality of war. In Chapter 9 p50-1), before the blood comes, Henry and the other drivers (Passini, Manera, Gordini, Gavuzzi) have a conversation about what is the purpose of war. This was probably what I found the most interesting of the section--especially as they all appear to think the purpose of war is stupidity right before it becomes a very real reality for them. And later, Henry and a priest (Ch. 11, p71)... I agree, that's the most interesting part of book 1 in my opinion. Even more than Frederic meeting Catherine since he doesn't seem caring much about her at that point of the story. I also found interesting that he has a similar conversation on war in book 3 as well, before leaving for the retreat. Now I wonder if there was a reason behind Hemingway's writing--what was the purpose of easing us into a novel about war by skimming over the gruesome parts? Or was there really no other reason? The book was published well after WWI ended (about 10 years, or so), and I feel like he didn't need to really tiptoe around the reality of war. I think it's meant to reflect the msin character's lack of self-interest in the war. As an American signing up with the Italian amy, he doesn't feel any sense of patriotic duty or purpose, as we can presume it was the case for Hemingway who signed up more out of curiosity than anything else... That's really a good point!
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Lu
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Post by Lu on Sept 28, 2013 10:43:49 GMT -5
Okay, all caught up. I have a different take than you, Isa. I think their relationship often seems forced and Catherine is needy and they both just want what they think a relationship is about. I remember thinking of this as a true love story in high school and now it makes me anxious for them. I remember talking about fatalism and foreshadowing a lot in class when we were reading this so maybe that's where the anxiety I am feeling for them is coming from. It was interesting to me to see how normal life can still be amidst a war. WWI was just awful but here they are going to restaurants and horse races and carrying on a love affair. That's interesting! For me the feeling of fatalism and foreshadowing is also link to the fact that author and characters mention names of places that remind me events I studied in italian history, such as Caporetto. The battle of Caporetto and the retread depicted in the novel are SO famous in our history that the term "Caporetto" in italian is still used a synonym of a terrible defeat or disaster. I like Catherine and Frederic together and I'm happy that he falls for her in book 2, but I have to agree with Michelle and their relationship makes me anxious....it doesn't help that in book 3 they keep mentioning Caporetto and the word is link to "disaster" in my mind! I think this must be an interesting book to read in class.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Oct 6, 2013 5:50:12 GMT -5
For me the feeling of fatalism and foreshadowing is also link to the fact that author and characters mention names of places that remind me events I studied in italian history, such as Caporetto. The battle of Caporetto and the retread depicted in the novel are SO famous in our history that the term "Caporetto" in italian is still used a synonym of a terrible defeat or disaster. Always interesting to see how our culture and experience influence the way we analyse books! I'd never heard of the battle of Caporetto before, so I couldn't really make the connection Lu made. In the last book of the novel, Catherine and Frederic seem very happy at first, though we do get an idea that Frederic might be in over his head by the way he's growing a bit restless. It makes us wonder what it will be like once the child is born and the romantic couple becomes a "boring" family, although by this point Hemingway has given us enough clues that something might go wrong. I was left to wonder how things would have been had the baby died but not Catherine. I think Frederic would have gotten bored with her once the first sparkles of passion were gone. Had the baby survived but not Catherine, I think he probably would have put it up for adoption. As things stand at the end of the novel, I think his relationship with Catherine will leave a permanent scar, just like the war left him with a knee injury, but after a period of sadness he'll be able to move on with his life. Maybe it's just his lack of interest in the child that makes me feel like Frederic could never really find any purpose or meaning in life, at least not at this point. To me it also explains why he signed up with the Italian army in the first place, he might only have been looking for a new thrilling and meaningful experience. His relationship with Catherine might have begun for the same reason: he wanted to try something new and different than the meaningless adventures he'd had in brothels. But in the end, both love and war failed to bring him what he was looking for and only left him feeling empty and lonelier than ever before...
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Lu
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Post by Lu on Oct 6, 2013 15:07:55 GMT -5
This section sort of lays the ground for the final book in which we know that Catherine will have the baby. The section ends on a light and cheerful tone, with the rather comical argument between the two Swiss guards about whether it would be better for Catherine and Henry to go to Montreux or stay in Locarno to do the winter sport. I thought the tone of this chapter was very different from the rest of the novel, as though Hemingway wants the reader to believe that Catherine and Henry have a bright future ahead of them now that they've reached Switzerland and have thus officially left the war behind. I really like that scene between the Swiss guards! they argue in a kind of polite way, it's funny. I agree with Isa, at that point I did realize I was hoping for Frederic and Catherine to have a happy future together and leave the war behind. I think the beginning of book 5 adds to that hope, they seem happy and I really liked the descriptions of the place they're living, it sounds like such a lovely place. In the last book of the novel, Catherine and Frederic seem very happy at first, though we do get an idea that Frederic might be in over his head by the way he's growing a bit restless. It makes us wonder what it will be like once the child is born and the romantic couple becomes a "boring" family, although by this point Hemingway has given us enough clues that something might go wrong. I was left to wonder how things would have been had the baby died but not Catherine. I think Frederic would have gotten bored with her once the first sparkles of passion were gone. Had the baby survived but not Catherine, I think he probably would have put it up for adoption. As things stand at the end of the novel, I think his relationship with Catherine will leave a permanent scar, just like the war left him with a knee injury, but after a period of sadness he'll be able to move on with his life. Maybe it's just his lack of interest in the child that makes me feel like Frederic could never really find any purpose or meaning in life, at least not at this point. To me it also explains why he signed up with the Italian army in the first place, he might only have been looking for a new thrilling and meaningful experience. His relationship with Catherine might have begun for the same reason: he wanted to try something new and different than the meaningless adventures he'd had in brothels. But in the end, both love and war failed to bring him what he was looking for and only left him feeling empty and lonelier than ever before... That's really interesting, Isa! I haven't wondered much about what would have happened if things had gone differently. I agree Frederic would probably have put the baby up for adoption. I think they both seem more focused on each other than on the baby, so much that I think, in the long-run, they wouldn't be happy as a family. I'm not sure about Frederic being able to move on...but he probably will, in book 5 it seems he's moved on from the war and the people who were with him, since he barely mentions them.
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Michelle
First novel published
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Post by Michelle on Oct 10, 2013 20:38:46 GMT -5
Aaaah. You guys, I am SO sorry I've been absent. I haven't been reading anything at all. I don't know where the time goes.
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Isa
Administrator
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Post by Isa on Oct 11, 2013 4:23:59 GMT -5
No need to apologize, Michelle! Maybe you'll have more time to read when we pick another novel
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Post by Carma on Oct 14, 2013 8:00:31 GMT -5
sooo, I have been terrible at this. I even brought the book back to the library when it was due, since I had only read a couple of pages. So, I'm sorry for not participating in this! But I like that you all DID!
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