BOOK CLUB BOOK: A Farewell to Arms - Ernest Hemmingway

[Carma]

I decided to make the thread for it, hope thats ok!



Our schedule:
Chapters 1-12 (77 pages): start discussion on September 7
Chapters 13-24 (78 pages): start discussion on September 14
Chapters 25-32 (70 pages): start discussion on September 21
Chapters 33-37 (48 pages): start discussion on September 28
Chapters 38-41 (43 pages): start discussion on October 5

Is this ok for everyone?

[Carma]

Oh, of course I can't sticky it... haha

[Lu]

Of course it's ok, Carma!
It's sticky now

The schedule sounds good to me. I'm busy now but I'll be able to catch up before the third part.

[Carma]

Wooo, it's time! And I am ashamed to say I am hopelessly behind, since I haven't been able to start reading yet! (But at least I have the book now.) Will try to catch up ASAP!

[Isa]

So what do you guys think of the book so far? I must admit that Hemingway's writing bothered me at first. His minimalist style struck me as (*gasp*) rather infantile. I don't care much for the hero for the moment - I don't think Hemingway wants us to - but I thought some of the minor characters, like the priest and Miss Barkley, were very interesting. One thing I really enjoyed was the contrast between the opening scene, in which the landscape and natural environment surrounding the villa are described at length, to the point where you forget it's a country at war, an impression that lasts through most of this part of the book. Even as the soldiers eat their macaroni near the front lines, you're almost led to believe that nothing could ever happen to them because of how careless and unbothered they seem to be. The description of the scene in the hospital at the end of the first part resembles that of the opening chapters, only this time the trees and hills are replaced with lines of beds and corpses being taken away on stretchers...

[Kristie]

I have to admit that until the last couple of chapters in the first section, I was rather bored. I agree with Isa about how the description of the setting hardly makes it seem like the country is at war. I didn't really like that though. I guess I took it as the narrator having had an easy time of it, with the war so far, since he deliberately skipped over any possible reference to the war. It might be weird that I was rather uninterested in the book until the blood and guts made an appearance I think that I had expected references to the war to be made from the beginning. Now I wonder if there was a reason behind Hemingway's writing--what was the purpose of easing us into a novel about war by skimming over the gruesome parts? Or was there really no other reason? The book was published well after WWI ended (about 10 years, or so), and I feel like he didn't need to really tiptoe around the reality of war.

In Chapter 9 p50-1), before the blood comes, Henry and the other drivers (Passini, Manera, Gordini, Gavuzzi) have a conversation about what is the purpose of war. This was probably what I found the most interesting of the section--especially as they all appear to think the purpose of war is stupidity right before it becomes a very real reality for them.

"'It could not be worse,' Passini said respectfully. 'There is nothing worse than war.'
'Defeat is worse.'
'I do not believe it,' Passini said still respectfully. 'What is defeat? You go home.'
'They come after you. They take your home. They take your sisters.'
'I don't believe it,' Passini said. 'They can't do that to everybody. Let everybody defend his home. Let them keep their sisters in the house.'
'They hang you. They come and make you be a soldier again. Noot in the auto-ambulance, in the infantry.'
'They can't hang everyone.'
'An outside nation can't make you be a soldier,' Manera said. 'At the first battle you all run.'
'Like the Tchecos.'
'I think you do not know anything about being conquered and so you think it is not bad.'
'Tenente,' Passini said. 'We understand you let us talk. Listen. There is nothing as bad as war. We in the auto-ambulance cannot even realize at all how bad it is. When people realize how bad it is they cannot do anthing to stop it because they go crazy. There are some people who never realize. There are people who are afraid of their officers. It is with them the war is made.'
'I know it is bad but we must finish it.'
'It doesn't finish. There is no finish to war.'
'Yes, there is.'
Passini shook his head.
'War is not won by victory. What if we take San Gabriele? What if we take the Carso and Monfalcone and Trieste? Where are we then? Did you see all the far mountains today? Do you think we could take all them too? Only if the Austrians stop fighting. One side must stop fighting. Why don't we stop fighting? If they come down into Italy they will get tired and go away. They have their own country. But no, instead there is a war.'
'You're an orator.'
'We think. We read. Wea are not peasants. We are mechanics. But even the peasants know better than to believe in a war. Everybody hates war.'
'There is a class that controls a country that is stupid and does not realize anything and never can. That is why we have this war.'
'Also they make money out of it.'
'Most of them don't,' said Passini. 'They are too stupid. They do it for nothing. For stupidity.'"

And later, Henry and a priest (Ch. 11, p71)...

"'There are people who would make war. In this country there are many like that. There are other people who would not make war.'
;But the first ones make them do it.'
'Yes.'
'And I help them.'
'You are a foreigner. You are a patriot.'
'And the ones who would not make war? Can they stop it?'
'I do not know.'
He looked out of the window again. I watched his face.
'Have they ever been able to stop it?'
'They are not organized to stop things and when they get organized their leaders sell them out.'
'Then it's hopeless?'
'It is never hopeless. But sometimes I cannot hope. I try always to hope but sometimes I cannot.'"

[Michelle]

I'm a little behind. I still have about 30 pages in the first section. Will drop by when I'm finished.

[Isa]

Sept 9, 2013 20:23:41 GMT -5 Kristie said:

Now I wonder if there was a reason behind Hemingway's writing--what was the purpose of easing us into a novel about war by skimming over the gruesome parts? Or was there really no other reason? The book was published well after WWI ended (about 10 years, or so), and I feel like he didn't need to really tiptoe around the reality of war.

[/i][/quote]

I think it's meant to reflect the msin character's lack of self-interest in the war. As an American signing up with the Italian amy, he doesn't feel any sense of patriotic duty or purpose, as we can presume it was the case for Hemingway who signed up more out of curiosity than anything else...

[Kristie]

That's a good point, Isa

[Michelle]

Okay. I finally finished the first section (I realize I'm supposed to be done with part 2 now but I've had a sick kid to contend with all week).

I first read this book my senior year of high school and I loved it. It started a whole Hemingway obsession that lasted a few years. But now, 12 or so years later, I'm not sure what it is that made me fall in love with it. I'll be curious to see how I feel at the end.

I like Hemingway's minimalist style. I get bored with writing that is too luscious. But these run on sentences could have used some editing, right?

I think Part One is mostly set up. Just meeting our main character and Catherine and seeing how he gets injured. I'm looking forward to continuing on.

[Isa]

Better late than never Michelle, I'm glad you could manage to join the discussion! It's always a bit of a surprise - sometimes a good one, sometimes not so good - to re-read a book when several years have passed. It's no only our change is literature that changes, I think it mostly reflects how we ourselves have grown and evolved.

So on to Book II now! After Henry's injuyy, the focus of the novel changes from the war to his love affair with Catherine. At first I thought he would only toy with her and end up breaking her heart, butI was pleasantly suprised to see Henry develop true feelings for her, it definitely helped me warm up to his character. The same goes for Catherine, who becomes truly romantic. It makes me wonder whether things would have been the same if they hadn't been desperate to feel loved, surrounded as they are by so much violence. Work and alcohol can only help so much! When they first get together, I'll admit that Catherine was a bit too sappy for my taste, but then she shows how brave she can be when she decides to handle the pregnancy on her own, and I also liked the horse-racing scene, in which she's depicted as free-spirited. Again, I was left to wonder what kind of woman she might have been had she not been sucked into this war...

[Carma]

I finally read something! Haven't finished the first section yet, but am not really enjoying the long sentences that don't make any sense after like three commas, and then there are like 10 more commas. Also don'enjoy the long sentences without commas, haha. I also have a bit of trouble with the jumpiness of the storytelling, though I can get behind that a bit better. I am not far enough to actually have anything to say about the story yet though.

[Michelle]

Okay, all caught up.

I have a different take than you, Isa. I think their relationship often seems forced and Catherine is needy and they both just want what they think a relationship is about. I remember thinking of this as a true love story in high school and now it makes me anxious for them.

I remember talking about fatalism and foreshadowing a lot in class when we were reading this so maybe that's where the anxiety I am feeling for them is coming from.

It was interesting to me to see how normal life can still be amidst a war. WWI was just awful but here they are going to restaurants and horse races and carrying on a love affair.

Question: When Catherine is annoyed that Henry says "You always feel biologically trapped" (or something like that) did that meant that he has gotten another girl pregnant? There are definitely subtleties that I am missing here.

[Isa]

Good question, Michelle. I don't think it means he's gotten another girl pregnant before, I took it as a simple remark that he's no more and no less trapped than people always are. As in no mind is ever truly free because we're slaved to our body, which comes out in the novel through the characters' hunger, thirst and lust. Does that make any sense at all?!

[Kristie]

I'd have to agree more with Michelle's view on the Catherine-Henry relationship than with Isa's. I think their relationship just feels so fake and insincere.

Maybe the book just isn't what I was expecting and that's why I'm not a big fan of it yet, but there are a few things that bother me. Michelle found it interesting that the normal life continues even amidst the war. I don't like that aspect, honestly. It could be because I was expecting a war story, not a living-alongside-war-story. But Henry treats the war so cavalierly, like it matters nothing to him, that I get a little upset.

Then there is the semi-autobiographical nature of the story. I've read in a newer (albeit technically fictional) rendition of Hemingway's life, that he was a soldier in WWI and he had an affair while away at war. Whether that's true or not, it makes me dislike Henry, even though his character isn't married, because he's based on Hemingway himself, who was married. (That's probably a weird reason to dislike a character )

I'm very interested to see what happens to Henry as he returns to war. Maybe I'll get a taste of what I was expecting from the beginning? (Possibly another problem is All Quiet on the Western Front is one of my favorite books, a more war-centered and romantic version of what Hemingway is producing here, so I'm comparing too much)