neh
Collection of short stories published by an independent editor
"I live in two worlds; one is a world of books"
Posts: 943
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Post by neh on Aug 3, 2007 19:06:29 GMT -5
I can say something teasing about Felicity and her dad - there's more to that storyline and it explains a lot, regarding several themes and some of your contextual issues. Read on, read on! I do see what you mean though, about the girls being aware of things they ordinarily wouldn't have been and how that can be distracing, but these 4 girls in particular seem to seek out info, just as they do the power they are granted - and having Fee as part of the group gives them an immediate source on all things taboo! If you recall, they didn't know what a lesbian was or that such a person could exist until Fee explained it, so they are ignorant and innocent to some extent still. They were all, except Fee of course, embarassed by the graphic picture that was in Mary's diary and whatnot - they were ashamed to strip down to swim, etc. I agree with you entirely on the title's meaning - it's twofold for sure. Now if you'll excuse me, i'm off to fantasise about Kartik... i mean, do some reading.... dododoo...
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Aug 4, 2007 7:08:41 GMT -5
lol, that whole scene in the cave where they talk about lesbianism made me think of a scene out of the movie Grease, where the Pink Ladies are having a sleep over and Frenchie (Gemma) insists on bringing along Sandy (Ann), and Rizzo (Fee) decides to "enlighten" them on certain topics ;D The whole scene felt very 1950s to me, I don't even think a full-blown Victorian whore would talk unashamedly about sex the way Felicity does! I felt the same way during the midnight bath scene because the girls seemed to be ashamed of being naked not because it was an improper thing to do, but because they were feeling self-concious about their body, which again strikes me as a more modern way of thinking. Just like I think the friendship between the four main characters reflects our own modern ideas of friendship, that almost sacred bound between high school girls, which I'm not entirely sure was so common back then. So I guess what makes it historically inaccurate for me is that the very essence of the characters is quite modern. They way they talk and some of the vocabulary and expressions they use (I'm not sure the word "lesbian" was used back in the 19th century, even if she does try to make up for it by throwing a "poppycock" in there once in a while ), and their overall demeanour, it just doesn't make me feel like I'm reading a story set during Victorian period. But maybe it just comes from having read too many 19th century novels! But anyways, as I said before, I love that idea of mixing the past with the present (Libba Bray calls it "fusion cooking", lol), and I really can't wait to get my hands on Rebel Angels. I went to the book store on Thursday night but the didn't have it so I'm either going to have to order it on-line or get it in Montreal.
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neh
Collection of short stories published by an independent editor
"I live in two worlds; one is a world of books"
Posts: 943
|
Post by neh on Aug 4, 2007 8:41:24 GMT -5
I hope when you find it, you enjoy it Jefie. And Libba Bray is a delight to read just in her blogs - as you will see from previous pages, she's a rambling, random genius! Her Q&A's that she includes at the end of her novels are excellent also - always funny and informative and honest.
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sagedautumn
Collection of short stories bought by Random House
You Might Need This!
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Post by sagedautumn on Aug 4, 2007 14:14:36 GMT -5
I don't think that Bray used the word lesbian didn't she call them Sapphos or saphists because of the Greek Poet??? I am not 100% sure but I don't remember reading the word lesbian in the book. I think that the title is not directly related to the heroine, Gemma, rather than the ordeals of each girl in general. Each is mistaken about the other, for example both Gemma and Ann seem jealous over Pippa's unerring beauty but we find out that she is forced to be engaged with a man at least twice her age, she is unhappy at home, her father gambles and her mother obsessed about pretences trying to hold on to what little they have. You may think that something is beautiful but there may be an underlying meaning to it, like a rose with thorns. Also although there are a lot of stories about women crying on their wedding night I think a lot of women knew more than they let on. Pretence was everything in the 19th century, even if you knew something about sex or anything for that matter you were instructed to feign innocence (or rather stupidity) in order to catch a worthy man i.e Scarlett O'Hara or even May Welland. Women from the upper crusts were no objection, in fact elite women tended to know more of such matters than other more common women because like today's celebrities with money comes carelessness and scandal. I don't doubt that Felicity would know what sex is nor what lesbianism because like everything else in the 19th century it was heresay to speak of it in public but women talked of it in whispers...
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Aug 4, 2007 14:56:36 GMT -5
You could be right, I'm not sure she uses the word "lesbian", although she does use other words and expressions that didn't exist in the Victorian period. Oh and I totally agree, a lot of what went on during the 19th century was all about keeping up appearances and I think that's what Libba Bray's using to create her story and her characters. But I actually don't think many women knew more than they let on and that they were all feigning to be innocent - some were for sure, especially those of the upper class as sage pointed out, but for the most part I believe that their parents, school and society in general did everything they could to keep them in the dark. After all, the best way to keep control over someone is to make sure they remain ignorant, and this kind of behaviour lasted well into the 20th century, judging from the impact Alfred Kinsey's books had in America. So I guess we're gonna have to agree to disagree on that one, lol It's still really cool to see that no matter what your perception of Victorian society is, you can still enjoy Libba Bray's books (or "book" in my case, since I've only read one) for what they are - fascinating stories with fascinating characters. About her blogs, I've been tempted to read them but again, since I haven't read "Rebel Angels", I was afraid I would come upon some spoilers. Is it safe to read them or should I wait?
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sagedautumn
Collection of short stories bought by Random House
You Might Need This!
Posts: 1,509
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Post by sagedautumn on Aug 4, 2007 15:33:47 GMT -5
Excuse my ignorance but who is Alfred Kinsey?? Haha I think agreeing on disagreeing is the best way to have a well thought out discussion.... As for her blogs most of them don't even go into the books...So i think you will be fine reading them!
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Aug 4, 2007 17:41:25 GMT -5
Great! Thanks for letting me know, I'm gonna read them as soon as I get back! Oh, and Kinsey is the author of Sexual Behavior in the Human Male (1948) and Sexual Behavior in the Human Female (1953). These two books helped shed many ill-conceived ideas about sexuality.
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neh
Collection of short stories published by an independent editor
"I live in two worlds; one is a world of books"
Posts: 943
|
Post by neh on Aug 4, 2007 19:05:32 GMT -5
Yes, Kinsey sure shook things up - i wish that our girls had been around to read his works, hehe! Imagine poor Ann's face! I agree with you Jefie - these are fascinating bookms with fascinating characters regardless of issues of context and such. If anything, i think the way in which Bray has crafted these books is a reminder of how such narrative elements can sometimes weigh a story down unnecessarily (not that your arguements weren't supported Jefie dear - i know what you were saying)
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sagedautumn
Collection of short stories bought by Random House
You Might Need This!
Posts: 1,509
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Post by sagedautumn on Aug 5, 2007 14:02:45 GMT -5
what sorts of notions did he displace?? I am just curious
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sagedautumn
Collection of short stories bought by Random House
You Might Need This!
Posts: 1,509
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Post by sagedautumn on Aug 6, 2007 18:31:32 GMT -5
Current Music: Message in a Bottle/The Police Current Location: home Subject: We're sorry for your inconvenience. Have a nice day. Time: 11:21 am Current Mood: pissed off One of my favorite movies of all time is Terry Gilliam's "Brazil." If you haven't ever seen it, I'll give you a quick primer. The movie is set in a future dystopian English society in which bureaucracy has run amok and a simple typo starts a Kafkaesque plot into motion. Okay, that's possibly the worst word trailer for a movie ever written, but there is so much inspired lunacy (it IS Terry Gilliam) that I don't want to give too much away. You should just see it.
One of the things I love so much about the movie are the bureaucratic bungles and the way in which they dehumanize everyone. Michael Palin is especially brilliant as a very cheerful torturer. (Actually, this is the perfect movie to watch in the shadow of the Bush Administration.)
Today, I felt like I was living my own personal "Brazil." All I wanted to do was download Adobe Shockwave. My kid wanted to play a game on Cartoon Network, and after he hocked me about it for a full hour, my only having had one cup of coffee, I bent to his skillful breakdown (His Eight-Year-Old's Techno Geek Will versus My Fear of Screwing Up the Laptop--not a fair fight.) Fine, I said. I'll download shockwave so you can play Ben 10 Now Goes to 11 or whatever it is. So I go to Apple.com. I click on Adobe Shockwave. I install said Shockwave. My computer, Hal, does not say, "I'm sorry, Libba. I can't do that, Libba." No, it gives me the big thumbs up and a wink--"Hey, babe! I'm installed! I'm on the job. Go have another cup o' joe." I love my computer when it's like this. I make googly eyes at it, and say, "My, what a big, strong computer you are! I'm gonna bake you a virtual pie!"
So I'm feeling mad love for my computer, and I'm feeling rather macho about installing shockwave all by my lonesome, because usually, when faced with computer stuff, I feel like I'm in any generic action movie in which the sweaty cop (that would be me) is standing before a bomb with a pair of wire cutters going, "red wire or blue wire? Red wire or blue wire...?", hoping I don't blow up Nebraska by attempting to install a basic application.
Okay. Fine. The kid goes to Ben 10, now with the power of MegaShockwaveGameAction and Scrubbing Bubbles, and...nothing. Nada. Zip. Pfffft. I'm sorry, it prompts rather politely, but you must first install Shockwave to perform this action.
WTF?
I look and I see the pretty Shockwave icon on my desktop. It mocks me with its very presence. "Hello, Libba," it seems to say through its pretty tidal wave of red-orange-yellow bars. "My name is Shockwave, and I will be f**king with you today." "No, Shockwave," I inform it. "Boy needs to play Ben 10 so mom can make more coffee and try to clip cat's nails. You must install. I once survived a Wiggles concert with a bad head cold. I am owed this small nugget of karma. Give me an effing break. Please?"
So I install that bad boy again. We go to Ben Freaking 10 and it's the same scenario. "Me no likee the loading for you," it taunts. "You lied to your mother when you were a teenager. A lot." (It's amazing how a site can anthropomorphize like that.)
This time I pull out the big guns. I call Apple support. Because I am the Jessica Simpson of technology, I call Apple support a lot. I call Apple support so much that I think they draw straws when my number pops up. The guy who drew the short straw today listens to my techno-angst and walks me through some computer choreography (And step and kick and grapevine and set your browser to this...) and we got nothin'. "Right," he says, "you need to talk to Adobe support. Here's the 1-800 number. Have a nice day."
I call Adobe. A: Hello, welcome to Adobe, my name is _____. My I have your first and last name, please? L: Hi. Yeah, it's Libba Bray. A: May I call you by your first name? L: Sure. A: And Libba, what is your phone number? L: It's XXX-XXX-XXXX. A: And what is your email address? (I'm starting to wonder when they will ask for blood and urine samples, but I give him my email addy.) A: No. That's not right. L: Um, yes it is. A: That is not what I am showing here. L: I swear that's my email address. A: No, I've got an "N" as in Nancy? (Suddenly feeling like a kindergartner being directed to give the right answer on a test.) L: No. No "N." I'm sorry. A: I have a "b" and a "g" also. (Now feeling as if I'm being "Punked." Will I get an electric shock if I still insist my email address is what it is? Suddenly, I realize he's talking about my husband, though I cannot imagine why my husband's name pops up for my computer. This is discussed.) A: Can you verify your address, please? (I do.) A: How may I help you?
I tell him the trouble, how I can't install Shockwave, and every time I do, it redirects me to a Tech Note page that tells me I need to relaunch my browser in something called Rosetta Emulation mode, which really does sound like something that could destroy Nebraska. I tell him I am reluctant to do this because I don't know what it means. Does he know what it means? Can he explain it?
Apparently not, for he only asks me to go to the same page.
L: Okay, the same thing is coming up, the Tech Note page. A: I'm sorry for your inconvenience. Please go to Adobe.com/shockwave... L: Um, you mean the same thing we've just done three times? A: Yes. L: O-kaaaay...Wow, shocker--I'm getting the same message. A: Let me redirect you to our Download Department. Here's your customer ID number.
(10 minutes of insufferable hold music commences. Do we really need muzak versions of Kansas's "Dust in the Wind"? Doesn't it already qualify? And more importantly, doesn't the Geneva Convention forbid this? A New Person answers.)
NP: Can I have your first and last name, please? L: Ahh, sure. Libba Bray. Do you want my customer ID number? NP: Sure. L: It's XXXXXXXXXX. NP: Thanks. Could I have your phone number? NP: Could I have your email address? NP: Can you verify your address? NP: What seems to be the trouble?
(I tell the story again. He takes me to the Adobe Shockwave download page, which I could now quote verbatim if caught behind enemy lines.)
NP: I'm sorry for your inconvenience. Could you tell me what it says? L: (dutifully reciting) Relaunch browser...Rosetta Emulation...quit browser...um, excuse me, but can't you see all this? Don't you know it? NP: (ignoring me) Go to downloads...
(10 more frustrating minutes later)
NP: I'm going to transfer you to our support center.
(More muzak. "What is it?" my son asks. "Idiots!" I snarl. "Morons! I'm dealing with morons!" He wisely slinks away to the kitchen for a doughnut, leaving me muttering on the couch. A woman answers. She is eating something. I hear her smacking in my ear. I will call her Eating Person, or EP)
EP: Can I have your first and last name? Email address? What seems to be the trouble?
(Now I feel like I'm living in my own personal "Groundhog Day" without Bill Murray to lighten the tension with an ice sculpture. I tell her the trouble. We go through the same damn thing.)
EP: You need Adobe Flash Player and Reader, too. Anything else you want to download? L: Yes. A Valium. EP: I'll transfer you to Downloads.
(I've now been on with Adobe for an hour. I could bite the head off a dove and call it lunch. Humorless Boy answers phone. We will call him HP, not to be confused with a certain boy wizard who, I'm sure, could get me shockwave in a jiffy.)
HP: Can I have your first and last name please. L: (snarling) Libba. Bray. HP: Can I have your phone number. L: X. X. X. X. X. X. XXXX. HP: Can I have-- L: Do you want my customer ID number? HP: Yes. L: It's XXXXXXX! HP: What seems to be the trouble? L: (Approaching Jack Nicholson in "Five Easy Pieces" stage) Look, you have my customer ID number, right? HP: Yes, ma'am. L: Can you see what it says there? What does it say when you pull it up? HP: You are having trouble downloading Adobe Shockwave. L: Excellent! Necco wafers all around! Now, please. Tell. Me. How. To. Fix. This. Please. HP: I'm sorry for your inconvenience. Go to Adobe.com/shockwave/downloads...
(I suppress a torrent of Tony Soprano-esque language and explain that I have now done this enough for it to qualify as an OCD trait at this point.)
HP: I'm sorry for your inconvenience. Go to Safari. Do you see Block Pop-Up Windows? L: Yes. HP: You have to enable that. L: Enable? You mean like Dina Lohan? (Humorless Boy gives me nothing. birds chirping.) L: (clearing throat) It's already unchecked. HP: Excuse me? L: It's not blocked. HP: Click on it, please. L: But...if I do that, it will block the pop-up windows, correct? HP: Yes. L: But...you want it unchecked, is that right? HP: Yes. L: Okay, here's the thing...It is currently NOT. BLOCKED. HP: It's not checked. L: Correct. HP: Go to Adobe forums. (I do.) L: So this is a complaint forum? HP: There are people who have had problems downloading shockwave. You can search through the forums and see if you find an answer to your problem there. (It is all I can do not to say, "You are totally shitting me.") L: So you can't help me. HP: No. L: Let me get this straight, there are millions of people who have Macs, and you can't figure out yet how to support shockwave on their computers? This is ridiculous. HP: I am sorry for your inconvenience. Please have a nice day.
Customer service. RIP.
Have a nice day
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neh
Collection of short stories published by an independent editor
"I live in two worlds; one is a world of books"
Posts: 943
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Post by neh on Aug 7, 2007 7:03:21 GMT -5
Good golly grief! Poor Libba.... all that technologicalish gumble - what a day! And she can still joke about it, bless her!
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sagedautumn
Collection of short stories bought by Random House
You Might Need This!
Posts: 1,509
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Post by sagedautumn on Aug 7, 2007 15:53:44 GMT -5
I've had that happen, all that frustration and annoying-ness but I could never could quite put it to words until NOW!
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neh
Collection of short stories published by an independent editor
"I live in two worlds; one is a world of books"
Posts: 943
|
Post by neh on Aug 7, 2007 17:19:22 GMT -5
I know! I feel you could request a rant from the woman on any type of common trouble, mishap or idea and she would deliver in such a way as to make you feel your thoughts are NOTHING! Amazing!
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sagedautumn
Collection of short stories bought by Random House
You Might Need This!
Posts: 1,509
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Post by sagedautumn on Aug 8, 2007 11:25:44 GMT -5
I NEED A rant about trying to get my father to get me a laptop before school starts so that I can work out the kinks before school starts!!!!!
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sagedautumn
Collection of short stories bought by Random House
You Might Need This!
Posts: 1,509
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Post by sagedautumn on Aug 14, 2007 10:21:21 GMT -5
I don't know if I should post this but Libba Bray has taken to posting her "deleted scenes" they aren't that good in fact some are really bad BUT her comments as usual are hilarious!
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