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Post by Lucky on May 5, 2008 9:12:26 GMT -5
ok.. May 8th sounds good. I should start reading today
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Post by ItalianLaneGirl on May 6, 2008 16:57:46 GMT -5
Is there a specific time that we all discuss the book tomorrow?
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zeldafitzgerald
Collection of short stories bought by Random House
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Post by zeldafitzgerald on May 6, 2008 19:02:12 GMT -5
Is there a specific time that we all discuss the book tomorrow? Tomorrow is the 7th. On the 8th I'm planning on posting the first questions before I leave for work in the morning.... about 8am ET.
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Post by ItalianLaneGirl on May 6, 2008 19:04:24 GMT -5
oh my goodness! For whatever reason, I kept thinking tomorrow was the 8th! Oops! hahahaha
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Post by Carma on May 7, 2008 7:47:06 GMT -5
oh my goodness! For whatever reason, I kept thinking tomorrow was the 8th! Oops! hahahaha well, now tomorrow is the 8th..
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zeldafitzgerald
Collection of short stories bought by Random House
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Post by zeldafitzgerald on May 7, 2008 19:08:01 GMT -5
Thank you Kristie! Also, just wanted to give everyone an update: I'm just finishing up getting things ready for the first part of the discussion, and I decided to post it later tonight. If I wait until tomorrow before work, it will already be late in the day in Europe and Australia, so I figured it be best to post the questions tonight, and everyone can start posting when they're ready.
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zeldafitzgerald
Collection of short stories bought by Random House
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Post by zeldafitzgerald on May 7, 2008 21:44:41 GMT -5
Ok, time to kick off the discussion! First of all, let me say that there don't seem to be nearly as many resources for Mansfield Park as there are for most of Jane Austen's other novels. I think that may be because I'm reading opinions that many people like this novel least. However, we don't need to let that discourage us, because it's also regarded as one of her most sophisticated and advanced novels. First of all, here are a few fun links: Woodcuts illustrations to accompany Mansfield Park: www.pemberley.com/janeinfo/jabrokil.html#mansfGenealogy of the characters in Mansfield Park: www.pemberley.com/janeinfo/mansfgen.htmlI've found a few discussion questions that we should be able to answer with what we've read so far, chapters 1-12. Here they are, to get us going: 1. What do you like and dislike about Fanny? How is she different from Austen’s other heroines? 2. Mansfield Park was written after a silence of more than a decade. During this period, Austen moved several times, saw the deaths of her father and a potential suitor, and became the dependent old maid we find so often among her more pitiable characters. The Napoleonic Wars continued; England embarked on imperialistic adventures. Austen followed both with interest. Do you see evidence of these things in the novel? For both of these questions, we can answer based on what we've read so far, and then come back to them as we progress to add more thoughts and observations. Feel free to also post any initial thoughts and observations about Mansfield Park, as well as any discussion questions of your own. I'll post more questions about M.P. 1-12 in the upcoming days.
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Post by ItalianLaneGirl on May 8, 2008 16:30:51 GMT -5
OK, so, I'm not quite sure how to answer these questions right now. I'm not really enjoying this book! It's the first Austen book I've read, but I'm determined to finish it....and hopefully enjoy it as I get further into it. Maybe more questions, or other people's answers will help me with my thought process.
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zeldafitzgerald
Collection of short stories bought by Random House
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Post by zeldafitzgerald on May 8, 2008 19:48:26 GMT -5
What do you think of Fanny so far?
In general, I do not think she is a very endearing character so far. Not compared to Jane Austen's other heroines, and not really compared to many other main characters in literature either.
I'm also not enjoy Mansfield Park nearly as much as I enjoyed her others (the ones I've read). It's a bit harder to read, and I think having a lovable heroine makes a big difference. I'm not as interested in Fanny, so I'm not as interested in the plot. I'm hoping it gets better as the plot picks up.
As for question 2, I do think Austen is a bit more worldly, and it's thus reflected in this novel. This is the only Austen that I've read so far, but I've noticed Sir Bertram is more involved in matters of business and economy than any other character. Analysis of Mansfield Park notes that his business is most likely concerning slavery.
So, while I'm not enjoying M.P. as much as Austen's other novels so far, I do think the emotions of the characters are very advanced and real.
A third question to ponder: What do you think of the love triangles that have developed so far?
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Post by Dominique on May 9, 2008 0:13:50 GMT -5
I must admit that I didn't find this section very engaging, but I suppose the action is still only just getting started. At this point Fanny has really been nothing but meek and fretful about what's going on around her in terms of the love triangles etc. I don't really think very much of her in this section, but at least as time goes on she sticks to what she believes rather than just being perpetually meek (sorry I'm trying not to jump ahead but it's hard!). I don't dislike her, but I'm kind of indifferent. Her personality reminds me a bit of Jane Eyre's, she's got the same kind of meek, shy countenance and has also been brought up to be the lesser out of her and her cousins. But while being meek they are both very unmoveable in their principles. As this is my first Austen I can't really comment on your second question in a comparitive sense, but I have read people saying they believe Mansfield Park to be darker - maybe that's why. In terms of the love triangles I have to say that I really don't find Edmund a compelling love interest at all. His only flaws are being obtuse in regards to Fanny's feelings for him and Mr Crawford's attachments to his sisters (at times). There's just nothing interesting about him, he's too perfect. He's kind to Fanny and that's great but he just doesn't seem like a real person to me. Maybe I just like love interest characters a little more mysterious I really think that maybe the reason this is one of her lesser liked novels has something to do with this. Fanny may not be as likeable as the other heriones but I think if her love interest was more engaging the novel would be better liked.
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zeldafitzgerald
Collection of short stories bought by Random House
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Post by zeldafitzgerald on May 9, 2008 7:05:57 GMT -5
Fanny may not be as likeable as the other heriones but I think if her love interest was more engaging the novel would be better liked. I agree with this. The combination of the two of them does not make for a very engaging story so far. However, when I try to think how Edward could be a more interesting character, I come up empty. He's been in Fanny's life since she was 10, and it's hard to add mystery to someone the protagonist grew up with. Here's a interesting section from the introduction to the Norton Critical Edition of Mansfield Park: "Over and against these readers have been those who feel that Mansfield Park does not stand out as the oddball of Austen's canon, but is indeed her most central work insofar as it posits stability, authority, custom, sobriety, and staunch morality as values cultivated in the country houses of the Tory gentry. For such readers, Fanny and Edmund are attractive, sensible, and sympathetic despite their passing flaws; the rootless Crawfords are patently unfeeling, amoral, and materialistic; and the novel as a whole rigorously moral in meting out its rewards to the deserving and its punishments to the undeserving." Question 4. What examples do you see of morality in the novel so far? Who exhibits it and who struggles with it? Are the moral issues and problems the characters are struggling with that different than some of the issues young people deal with today?
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Post by Carma on May 9, 2008 8:59:04 GMT -5
ok, will post something soon! busy busy busy
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Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
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Post by Kristie on May 9, 2008 14:30:47 GMT -5
Zelda, I really like your question about Fanny as a heroine. Here's my response to it: Fanny is demure and passive whereas all of Austen's other heroines are headstrong and know what they deserve/want. While Elinor can be a little passive at times in S&S, she is more aware of what she deserves than Fanny Price. It is because Fanny is so passive that she is probably my least favorite heroine. I applaud Austen for going away from her normal heroine with Fanny, but I am so unlike Fanny that I don't like her very much in the respect of assertiveness. Mansfield Park is probably my favorite Austen novel, but P&P can sometimes overtake it because I like both the story and the heroine, not just the story.
In response to the love triangle issue, this is one reason I like the story In the end, it is easy to see how this novel could be made into a modern day soap opera (while I despise soaps, this story could fit the picture). I think the only triangles really present so far are that of Crawford-Maria-Rushworth & Julia-Crawford-Maria. There is no other triangle because I think Fanny is just beginning to realize that she doesn't like Edmund's affections being focused on Miss Crawford. It would be hard to tell if Fanny is just seeking attention or affection from Edmund, but a few lines make it clear she wants affection (though I can't think of them off the top of my head). These love triangles are what make the story so interesting to me.
I don't think we are far enough into the book to see morality a big question. Maria has not behaved so badly to Rushworth (yet). I do think that Tom could be more understanding of the fact that he is wasting money that will affect his siblings--it seems only very bad because he seems to know he is doing wrong in this way, but just doesn't care.
I have a question to add: What are everyone's feelings on Mrs. Norris? I find her a very interesting character, although not in a good way. She seems to want to help a lot of other people and occasionally herself in the process, but never wants to put any of her own efforts or money into it. Does she just like spending others' money? Or is she being sincere in her want of helping but not providing?
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Lu
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Post by Lu on May 9, 2008 15:08:36 GMT -5
I have to admit that this time I'm enjoying Fanny a bit more than the first time I read Mansfield Park, still I think she's sort of boring, compared to other Austen's heroines...so passive and shy...but I also felt sorry, I mean, she's not considered really like a part of the Bertram family and her character could hardly grow more headstrong in such a situation. The love triangle Mr. Crawford-Maria-Julia struck me for the differences with the triangle in Persuasion (Wentworth-Henrietta-Louisa), the character of the people involved are VERY contrasting and the relationship between the two sisters is really different, because Maria and Julia are clearly in competition and very jealous one of the other. I have a question to add: What are everyone's feelings on Mrs. Norris? I find her a very interesting character, although not in a good way. She seems to want to help a lot of other people and occasionally herself in the process, but never wants to put any of her own efforts or money into it. Does she just like spending others' money? Or is she being sincere in her want of helping but not providing? I don't like Mrs. Norris, I agree that she's very interesting. I think she believes that giving an idea to help someone is equal to actually help them (I hope it makes sense...), like she did for Fanny...she considers herself like a benefactress to Fanny, even if she acts very unfairly to her. To make another parallel with Persuasion, Mrs. Norris reasons in a way that reminds me of Mary (Anne's sister). I wonder why Sir Bertram has a good opinion and trust her...
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