Post by Isa on Sept 17, 2006 8:14:16 GMT -5
It seems like most people on this board have read Pride and Prejudice so I was thinking maybe we could have a more in-depth discussion about it. I'll ask the first question:
Q1: Other than Darcy and Elizabeth, who is your favorite character
and why?
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I personally like Mr. Bingley after Mr. Darcy and Elizabeth. I just like how he isn't the stereotypical wealthy male of that time period, seeing as his is most willing to marry far beneath him. Although he seems a bit guillable, especially when his sister schemes to have him not marry Jane (with no help of Mr. Darcy on that account), he found out that he should do what is right. If anything is wrong with Mr. Bingley it's that he takes the opinions of his family and best friend too seriously and does their bidding and not his own.
Am I supposed to ask another question? Or am I just supposed to answer this one?
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Kristie
Q2. The original title of "Pride and Prejudice" was supposed to have been "First Impressions". When reading it, what were your first impressions of the characters (Jane, Elizabeth, Bingley, Darcy, Lydia, Mrs. Bennet, Wickham). Which of your impressions were right and which were wrong?
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Jefie
Yes, you can ask a question or just give an answer - whatever you feel like!
A1) I think my favorite character has to be Mr. Bennet. He's so witty, he just cracks me up! I know he's been criticized a lot for his lack of parenting skills, but at the same time he truly seems to love and care about his daughters, which was somewhat uncommon for male characters of that period.
A2) Many were right: I didn't like Wickham, didn't like Caroline Bingley, thought Lydia was too silly for her own good... I was sort of wrong about Colonel Fitzwilliam at first, in the sense that I thought he might fall in love with Elizabeth. Ooh, I don't know why but I kinda liked Lady Catherine at first, maybe because she seemed to like Lizzy when she first met her - boy was I wrong about that one! Also, I thought that Charlotte was very cold but as it turns out, she seems to be the voice of reason in the novel and although she might not be an attractive character, I like how she brings us back to early 19th century reality.
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Jefie
Q3) Based on P&P, do you think Jane Austen can be described as a feminist writer or not?
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Kristie
A2) At first I thought that Elizabeth was too stubborn and pig-headed for her own good, which was basically true, but in the end it turned out all okay for her. Jane seemed to be too passive to ever marry a man she actually loved (aka Bingley), but I think Bingley just took that for playing hard to get and liked it. For Bingley I thought that he definitely was a pawn for Caroline and Darcy, but finally he realized he’d been a fool and did the right thing. Lydia I could tell was going to be trouble because she was way too foolish and immature to handle certain situations. As most readers probably thought, I felt that Wickham had really been who he said he was, but obviously I was wrong and it was Darcy who had the life Wickham described.
A3) I definitely think that Jane Austen was a feminist writer. She bases P&P on a family of 5 daughters who need to be married and who have a low income. She gives the heroine a very feminist character who isn’t afraid to be a spinster if she wants. Of all the books Austen wrote, I think that she was definitely trying to get the point across that money should have nothing to do with women’s characters; men should choose women who they’re compatible with and who love them back, not because of their high class or reputation.
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Kristie
Q4) In the book it is mentioned that pride and vanity are two different things. Pride is what we think of ourselves and vanity is what we want others to think of us. Is Darcy proud or vain? Elizabeth?
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Jefie
A3) I agree, I definitely perceive Jane Austen as a feminist writer, even though she did it in a fairly subtle way, probably in order not to upset the parents of her readers. Not only does Elizabeth only want to marry for love, but Austen also includes little details such as having the Bennet sisters walk and exercise a lot, which is something that is recommended by Mary Wollstonecraft in her Vindications for the Rights of Woman. Also, I like that Lizzie is not the typical artificially "accomplished" young lady - it is implied that she would rather read than spend countless hours improving her skills on the piano, as would be expected of her. And all this doesn't prevent her from ending up with a great guy!
A4) I do believe that Elizabeth is proud. I think she takes a lot of pride in being a free thinker and not being afraid to speak her mind. As for vanity, well she certainly doesn't care about what Bingley's sisters might think of her so I would say no.
As for Darcy, I think that at the beginning he is definitely both proud and vain, but once Elizabeth refuses to marry him, I think he realizes that what he thought was pride was actually vanity - I mean, when Elizabeth reproaches him for saying he's in love with her against his better judgement, that's probably when he realizes that he care too much about what other people might think of his choice of a wife. But in the end, depite the fact that the Bennet name has been tarnished by Lydia's behaviour, he's no longer afraid to marry her.
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Jefie
Q5) Mr. and Mrs. Bennet have a huge role to play in their daughters' happiness. Who do you think does a better job and why?
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Kristie
A4) Darcy is definitely both proud and vain, but maybe even more vain than proud. I think that he cares way too much about reputation, hence his spiel about accomplished women and how he would want to marry only such a woman because her accomplishments are known. I think that he has some pride too. I mean, he obviously thinks himself better than the Bennet family and he even tries to keep his best friend from marrying below him. But in the end he comes around and tries to save the Bennet name and marry Lizzie.
Elizabeth is proud, not vain. She is one of the most feminist characters I have ever read. She doesn’t care what others think of her. The wealthier someone is, the less she cares what they think of her. She isn’t afraid to be truthful and she wasn’t afraid of never marrying because she didn’t care one way or the other.
A5) Mr. Bennet is definitely the better parent. Perhaps it’s because he isn’t annoying and he listens to his daughters’ reasonings. Mr. Bennet wants what is best for his daughters, but he also wants them to be happy. Mrs. Bennet only cared about her daughters being married well so that she had somewhere to live after Mr. Bennet passes away. She cares about her reputation, which she doesn’t even realize is the reputation of annoyance to most of those who know her. Mrs. Bennet is a vain airhead and Mr. Bennet is loving and kind.
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Kristie
Q6) The trip that Lydia went on with the family friends ended disasterously. If Kitty had been allowed to go too, or just instead of Lydia, how do you think the story would've played out?
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Jefie
A5) I agree that despite all his faults, Mr. Bennet is the better parent. I know that if you look at it from an 18th century perspective, and given the precarious financial situation of the family, he's been rightly accused of being somewhat too laid back and spending too much time shut up in his library. And despite the fact that she gets on my nerves, I can appreciate Mrs. Bennet's concern in marrying her daughters - BUT, it seems she's just willing to marry them off to whoever shows up first as long as he's got money, whereas Mr. Bennet obviously wants them to marry for love. He's not even thrilled at the idea that Lizzy should marry Mr. Darcy at first because he's not sure she loves him! Also, as far as reputation goes, I think that Mrs. Bennet's silliness has greatly contributed to the poor opinion Darcy has of the family, which is one of the reasons why he tries to break up the relationship between Jane and Bingley. Mr. Bennet also seems to remain a loving father after Lizzy gets married - I love it when it says that he loves to go visit them at Pemberley, especially when he is least expected!
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Jefie
A6) Good question. I really think that Lydia was the driving force in that two-some and that if Kitty had gone alone, nothing much would have happened. If she and Kitty had gone together, I'm afraid Lydia might have convinced Kitty to elope with Lft. Denny!
Q7) Lizzy's visit to Pemberley seems to coincide with her change of mind about Mr. Darcy - she even jokingly tells Jane that she fell in love with Darcy when she saw his beautiful grounds! At what time during that visit do you really think she fell in love with him?
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Kristie
A6) I also think that it was Lydia’s stupid want of being married for the title that made the elopement possible. If it had been Kitty there, I don’t think she would have been so foolish as to do that. Had both girls been there, there would have been one of two things happen: 1) Lydia and Kitty would have had a major cat fight over who Wickham would choose, or 2) they would have found another man and cause double the trouble to the Bennet family.
A7) I think that by looking deeper into Darcy’s personal life, Elizabeth realized he was human. I also think during that visit was when she learned a lot about how Darcy cared for and protected his younger sister. By knowing that he cared for someone other than himself, Elizabeth probably felt that it would be possible for him to love someone else, someone like her. Not to mention, his vast estate at Pemberly would be a great perk (Mrs. Bennet would have been very pleased).
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Kristie
Q8) As a person, what do you think of Mr. Collins? (Especially in his high esteem to be working for the honourable Lady Catherine de Bourgh? And for his wanting a wife so badly?)
A7) Not to mention, his vast estate at Pemberly would be a great perk (Mrs. Bennet would have been very pleased).
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Jefie
LOL
A7) I can think of three things that helped Elizabeth's feelings for Darcy take a turn for the best: The conversation with the housekeeper, which puts him in a very favorable light, also Darcy's portrait in the gallery, which somehow makes Lizzie realize that what the housekeeper just said was all true, and finally Pemberley itself! I think Lizzie is touched by the way the grounds of Pemberley look like nature undisturbed (unlike ghastly Rosings Park, where everything is so contrived), and I believe this makes her think that no one but a good soul might have such an estate.
(I really can't think about that particular chapter without thinking about Colin Firth and his wet shirt!!)
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Jefie
A8) What do I think of Mr. Collins? What can I say, the guy's an idiot! The part where Mr. Bennet asks him about how he compliments Lady Catherine is priceless, he has so figured him out! But I think Mr. Collins also help us understand how important social ranks were at that time. Even though he's ugly and stupid, he knows that his situation in life as a clergyman and his relationship with Lady Catherine automatically make him a good match, which is why he doesn't see why Lizzie would want to refuse him, and it also explains Mrs. Bennet's desire that Lizzie should marry him and his eventual marriage with Charlotte.
Q9) The book pretty much ends with Lizzie and Jane's weddings. Lydia is already married, so only Kitty and Mary are left at Longbourne. We are told that Kitty spends a lot of time with her two elder sisters and that she greatly improves, but not a word is said about poor Mary. What do you think happens to her?
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Kristie
First off, I totally understand what you mean about Colin Firth in his wet shirt. O man! What a great scene. (I think he was the best looking actor in that miniseries, not just because he’s Colin Firth, but because I thought some of the others were weird looking.)
Anyway…
A8) I think that Mr. Collins does know that he would be a good match for any of the Bennet sisters because he knows he has good connections. Not to mention he will inherit their estate, so he feels he’s a shoe-in for one of them so that their mother and sisters have somewhere to live when he gets control. I do think that he is a bit proud though; definitely proud of Lady Catherine. I found her character to be insufferable, so I don’t know how Mr. Collins can stand her that much, but it’s probably just because he knows that the connection is a good one and it will boost his reputation.
A9) The way Mary seems to only care about music and doesn’t care at all for frivolities leads me to believe that she probably never married. I would say that she lived her days as Mrs. Bennet’s companion, because I think that Kitty probably married a red-coat sometime in her life. Even if Mary and Mrs. Bennet have basically nothing in common, I guess they could’ve lived together, even after Mr. Bennet died and they were shooed from the house when Mr. Collins and Charlotte came to inherit the estate.
Q10) This is more of a question about you than about the characters, but: Do you identify more with Jane or Elizabeth? I guess that means, what are the differences of their characters and what do you like about them?
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Jefie
A9) I can also see Mary ending up an old spinster, a little bit like the character of Miss Bates in Emma. But I can also see her blossoming a little bit after her sisters leave, because she no longer would have to suffer from the comparison with her prettier, more accomplished sisters. In fact, I think that's why she seems to care so much about music, even though she's really bad at it, she feels like this might be the only way she can distinguish herself from her sisters. And who knows, another Mr. Collins might come along and fall for Mary if he's got no other choice!
A10) Interesting question... I guess I identify more with Elizabeth. When I hear about a situation or a piece of news, I like to think for myself instead of buying other people's opinions and I think that's part of what makes Lizzie so different from other female characters of her time. And I must admit that yes, I do stick to my first impressions sometimes. I'm definitely not like Jane who likes to think well of everyone she meets! Sometimes propriety gets the best of me and instead of speaking out like Lizzie does, I might act like Jane; but deep down I know I don't have Jane's goodness, although I wish I did.
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Jefie
Q11) Elizabeth was very much disturbed by Darcy's letter explaining his dealings with Wickham and the reasons why he had separated Bingley from Jane. As the reader, how did you react to the content of that letter?
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Kristie
A10) I think that I identify with both of them. In my thoughts, I definitely am like Lizzie and her feminist views (not so much that I’d go about protesting women’s rights because we really do have a lot). But my heart is probably more like Jane: I always want to see the best in everything and I like to believe everyone is a good person until they prove otherwise to me personally. I’m sort of passive about some things like Jane is too. Like with the whole Mr. Bingley situation: how she didn’t really flirt with him is sort of like me (I’m not a flirt).
A11) I think that one reason Elizabeth believed Wickham’s story as true was because she already had thoughts about Darcy’s character being something like Wickham described. But when she turned out to be wrong in her first impression it disturbed her that she fell for something so easily. I think that Elizabeth was also surprised to find that Darcy hadn’t known Jane’s intentions by not provoking Bingley. I mean, Elizabeth forgot that as her sister she knew Jane was that kind of person, but no one else will automatically know that Jane was just shy and really did like him.
Q12) When Elizabeth walks to Netherfield to visit Jane who’s sick, what do you think are the unsaid reactions of the characters Mr. Bingley, Miss Bingley, and Mr. Darcy?
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Kristie
I just thought of something: What are we gonna do when this board gets erased and we have to start all over again on the CW boards? How'll we remember what questions we've already asked?
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Jefie
Good point! I guess we could copy-paste it in a word document and post it again on the other board? I really wouldn't want to lose this thread!
(I'm off for the day but I'll post my answers tonight or tomorrow)
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Jefie
A11) I think I was tempted to believe Darcy immediately, whereas Elizabeth had to read the letter a second time to finally convince herself that everything he wrote about Wickham added up. I didn't appreciate his tone in the first part of the letter when he talks about Jane and Bingley but then I too started thinking about that dreadful ball at Netherfield and how everybody in Lizzie's family had behaved in such an odd way.
The letter really helped me move past my first impressions, good and bad, of all the characters - it truly is a turning point in the novel. Also, as the story is pretty much entirely told from Lizzie's point of view, I really appreciated getting an insight into Darcy's mind.
A12) Mr. Bingley: I think he really likes Elizabeth and after she walks all the way to Netherfield to see Jane, he probably likes her even more. He appreciates goodness and kind gestures and he's probably already thrilled at the idea of having such a nice sister-in-law.
Mrs. Bingley: well, she makes it clear that she doesn't appreciate Lizzie's presence but what is not said out loud, is that she hates having her in the same room as Darcy and is madly jealous since he made that comment about her fine eyes. It is quite clear that she wants Mr. Darcy for herself.
Mr. Darcy: I think he's quite happy to have the opportunity to take a closer look at this "phenomenon". She's already caught his attention and although I don't think he's already in love at that point, I'll bet he's probably very excited to hear that she's going to spend a few days with them.
Q13) How do you feel about the fact that Helen Fielding "borrowed" the plot of Pride and Prejudice for her novel "Bridget Jones's Diary"?
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Kristie
A12) Mr. Bingley, I think, admires Elizabeth for walking so far. I’m sure he knew the family didn’t have the best resources to get her there, plus, I think he’s happy that since Elizabeth walked she can’t take Jane away. Bingley likes that Lizzie loves her sister so much to walk in such horrid conditions just to make sure she’s comfortable and everything.
Miss Bingley seems to be, well, a HUGE snob. So, of course, she can’t believe that Lizzie would do something so ghastly as walk so far, let alone by herself and especially with the muddy-ness of the roads. She would never do that, but she’s wealthy enough to not have to. But I think she resents Lizzie for doing it, because it makes her seem like a real big baby, especially in front of Darcy who, I too think, she loves.
Mr. Darcy, I think, is surprised more than anything. Lizzie’s way of behaving/thinking has already shocked him, being so “unrefined” and all. I think that that is actually why he makes his big speech about how much women have to do to actually be considered “accomplished”.
A13) I actually haven’t read this, but I’ve seen the movie a couple times, so I understand what you mean in the question. First off, I think it is amazingly funny how Colin Firth got to play Mr. Darcy in P&P and Mark Darcy in BJ. I think that it was okay for Helen Fielding to borrow the plot of P&P to write Bridget Jones because it really is a good story. Of course most people probably know that it is based off P&P so I guess Austen is still getting credit for something (at least I hope so anyway). It was just a modern twist on an age old story. Just like Clueless is a new, Beverly Hills styled Emma. Austen wrote books that people could relate to, but some people just adapt it so they’re more appropriate for the modern adult/teen. If it gets Jane Austen’s general idea out there, I have no problem with it, but I hope in most cases she gets some credit for it.
Q14) Do you think that Lizzie is a bit jealous when Charlotte marries Mr. Collins? Lizzie detested the man from the start, so is it jealousy or complete bewilderment that is brought forth when Charlotte marries him?
Q1: Other than Darcy and Elizabeth, who is your favorite character
and why?
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I personally like Mr. Bingley after Mr. Darcy and Elizabeth. I just like how he isn't the stereotypical wealthy male of that time period, seeing as his is most willing to marry far beneath him. Although he seems a bit guillable, especially when his sister schemes to have him not marry Jane (with no help of Mr. Darcy on that account), he found out that he should do what is right. If anything is wrong with Mr. Bingley it's that he takes the opinions of his family and best friend too seriously and does their bidding and not his own.
Am I supposed to ask another question? Or am I just supposed to answer this one?
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Kristie
Q2. The original title of "Pride and Prejudice" was supposed to have been "First Impressions". When reading it, what were your first impressions of the characters (Jane, Elizabeth, Bingley, Darcy, Lydia, Mrs. Bennet, Wickham). Which of your impressions were right and which were wrong?
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Jefie
Yes, you can ask a question or just give an answer - whatever you feel like!
A1) I think my favorite character has to be Mr. Bennet. He's so witty, he just cracks me up! I know he's been criticized a lot for his lack of parenting skills, but at the same time he truly seems to love and care about his daughters, which was somewhat uncommon for male characters of that period.
A2) Many were right: I didn't like Wickham, didn't like Caroline Bingley, thought Lydia was too silly for her own good... I was sort of wrong about Colonel Fitzwilliam at first, in the sense that I thought he might fall in love with Elizabeth. Ooh, I don't know why but I kinda liked Lady Catherine at first, maybe because she seemed to like Lizzy when she first met her - boy was I wrong about that one! Also, I thought that Charlotte was very cold but as it turns out, she seems to be the voice of reason in the novel and although she might not be an attractive character, I like how she brings us back to early 19th century reality.
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Jefie
Q3) Based on P&P, do you think Jane Austen can be described as a feminist writer or not?
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Kristie
A2) At first I thought that Elizabeth was too stubborn and pig-headed for her own good, which was basically true, but in the end it turned out all okay for her. Jane seemed to be too passive to ever marry a man she actually loved (aka Bingley), but I think Bingley just took that for playing hard to get and liked it. For Bingley I thought that he definitely was a pawn for Caroline and Darcy, but finally he realized he’d been a fool and did the right thing. Lydia I could tell was going to be trouble because she was way too foolish and immature to handle certain situations. As most readers probably thought, I felt that Wickham had really been who he said he was, but obviously I was wrong and it was Darcy who had the life Wickham described.
A3) I definitely think that Jane Austen was a feminist writer. She bases P&P on a family of 5 daughters who need to be married and who have a low income. She gives the heroine a very feminist character who isn’t afraid to be a spinster if she wants. Of all the books Austen wrote, I think that she was definitely trying to get the point across that money should have nothing to do with women’s characters; men should choose women who they’re compatible with and who love them back, not because of their high class or reputation.
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Kristie
Q4) In the book it is mentioned that pride and vanity are two different things. Pride is what we think of ourselves and vanity is what we want others to think of us. Is Darcy proud or vain? Elizabeth?
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Jefie
A3) I agree, I definitely perceive Jane Austen as a feminist writer, even though she did it in a fairly subtle way, probably in order not to upset the parents of her readers. Not only does Elizabeth only want to marry for love, but Austen also includes little details such as having the Bennet sisters walk and exercise a lot, which is something that is recommended by Mary Wollstonecraft in her Vindications for the Rights of Woman. Also, I like that Lizzie is not the typical artificially "accomplished" young lady - it is implied that she would rather read than spend countless hours improving her skills on the piano, as would be expected of her. And all this doesn't prevent her from ending up with a great guy!
A4) I do believe that Elizabeth is proud. I think she takes a lot of pride in being a free thinker and not being afraid to speak her mind. As for vanity, well she certainly doesn't care about what Bingley's sisters might think of her so I would say no.
As for Darcy, I think that at the beginning he is definitely both proud and vain, but once Elizabeth refuses to marry him, I think he realizes that what he thought was pride was actually vanity - I mean, when Elizabeth reproaches him for saying he's in love with her against his better judgement, that's probably when he realizes that he care too much about what other people might think of his choice of a wife. But in the end, depite the fact that the Bennet name has been tarnished by Lydia's behaviour, he's no longer afraid to marry her.
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Jefie
Q5) Mr. and Mrs. Bennet have a huge role to play in their daughters' happiness. Who do you think does a better job and why?
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Kristie
A4) Darcy is definitely both proud and vain, but maybe even more vain than proud. I think that he cares way too much about reputation, hence his spiel about accomplished women and how he would want to marry only such a woman because her accomplishments are known. I think that he has some pride too. I mean, he obviously thinks himself better than the Bennet family and he even tries to keep his best friend from marrying below him. But in the end he comes around and tries to save the Bennet name and marry Lizzie.
Elizabeth is proud, not vain. She is one of the most feminist characters I have ever read. She doesn’t care what others think of her. The wealthier someone is, the less she cares what they think of her. She isn’t afraid to be truthful and she wasn’t afraid of never marrying because she didn’t care one way or the other.
A5) Mr. Bennet is definitely the better parent. Perhaps it’s because he isn’t annoying and he listens to his daughters’ reasonings. Mr. Bennet wants what is best for his daughters, but he also wants them to be happy. Mrs. Bennet only cared about her daughters being married well so that she had somewhere to live after Mr. Bennet passes away. She cares about her reputation, which she doesn’t even realize is the reputation of annoyance to most of those who know her. Mrs. Bennet is a vain airhead and Mr. Bennet is loving and kind.
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Kristie
Q6) The trip that Lydia went on with the family friends ended disasterously. If Kitty had been allowed to go too, or just instead of Lydia, how do you think the story would've played out?
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Jefie
A5) I agree that despite all his faults, Mr. Bennet is the better parent. I know that if you look at it from an 18th century perspective, and given the precarious financial situation of the family, he's been rightly accused of being somewhat too laid back and spending too much time shut up in his library. And despite the fact that she gets on my nerves, I can appreciate Mrs. Bennet's concern in marrying her daughters - BUT, it seems she's just willing to marry them off to whoever shows up first as long as he's got money, whereas Mr. Bennet obviously wants them to marry for love. He's not even thrilled at the idea that Lizzy should marry Mr. Darcy at first because he's not sure she loves him! Also, as far as reputation goes, I think that Mrs. Bennet's silliness has greatly contributed to the poor opinion Darcy has of the family, which is one of the reasons why he tries to break up the relationship between Jane and Bingley. Mr. Bennet also seems to remain a loving father after Lizzy gets married - I love it when it says that he loves to go visit them at Pemberley, especially when he is least expected!
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Jefie
A6) Good question. I really think that Lydia was the driving force in that two-some and that if Kitty had gone alone, nothing much would have happened. If she and Kitty had gone together, I'm afraid Lydia might have convinced Kitty to elope with Lft. Denny!
Q7) Lizzy's visit to Pemberley seems to coincide with her change of mind about Mr. Darcy - she even jokingly tells Jane that she fell in love with Darcy when she saw his beautiful grounds! At what time during that visit do you really think she fell in love with him?
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Kristie
A6) I also think that it was Lydia’s stupid want of being married for the title that made the elopement possible. If it had been Kitty there, I don’t think she would have been so foolish as to do that. Had both girls been there, there would have been one of two things happen: 1) Lydia and Kitty would have had a major cat fight over who Wickham would choose, or 2) they would have found another man and cause double the trouble to the Bennet family.
A7) I think that by looking deeper into Darcy’s personal life, Elizabeth realized he was human. I also think during that visit was when she learned a lot about how Darcy cared for and protected his younger sister. By knowing that he cared for someone other than himself, Elizabeth probably felt that it would be possible for him to love someone else, someone like her. Not to mention, his vast estate at Pemberly would be a great perk (Mrs. Bennet would have been very pleased).
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Kristie
Q8) As a person, what do you think of Mr. Collins? (Especially in his high esteem to be working for the honourable Lady Catherine de Bourgh? And for his wanting a wife so badly?)
A7) Not to mention, his vast estate at Pemberly would be a great perk (Mrs. Bennet would have been very pleased).
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Jefie
LOL
A7) I can think of three things that helped Elizabeth's feelings for Darcy take a turn for the best: The conversation with the housekeeper, which puts him in a very favorable light, also Darcy's portrait in the gallery, which somehow makes Lizzie realize that what the housekeeper just said was all true, and finally Pemberley itself! I think Lizzie is touched by the way the grounds of Pemberley look like nature undisturbed (unlike ghastly Rosings Park, where everything is so contrived), and I believe this makes her think that no one but a good soul might have such an estate.
(I really can't think about that particular chapter without thinking about Colin Firth and his wet shirt!!)
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Jefie
A8) What do I think of Mr. Collins? What can I say, the guy's an idiot! The part where Mr. Bennet asks him about how he compliments Lady Catherine is priceless, he has so figured him out! But I think Mr. Collins also help us understand how important social ranks were at that time. Even though he's ugly and stupid, he knows that his situation in life as a clergyman and his relationship with Lady Catherine automatically make him a good match, which is why he doesn't see why Lizzie would want to refuse him, and it also explains Mrs. Bennet's desire that Lizzie should marry him and his eventual marriage with Charlotte.
Q9) The book pretty much ends with Lizzie and Jane's weddings. Lydia is already married, so only Kitty and Mary are left at Longbourne. We are told that Kitty spends a lot of time with her two elder sisters and that she greatly improves, but not a word is said about poor Mary. What do you think happens to her?
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Kristie
First off, I totally understand what you mean about Colin Firth in his wet shirt. O man! What a great scene. (I think he was the best looking actor in that miniseries, not just because he’s Colin Firth, but because I thought some of the others were weird looking.)
Anyway…
A8) I think that Mr. Collins does know that he would be a good match for any of the Bennet sisters because he knows he has good connections. Not to mention he will inherit their estate, so he feels he’s a shoe-in for one of them so that their mother and sisters have somewhere to live when he gets control. I do think that he is a bit proud though; definitely proud of Lady Catherine. I found her character to be insufferable, so I don’t know how Mr. Collins can stand her that much, but it’s probably just because he knows that the connection is a good one and it will boost his reputation.
A9) The way Mary seems to only care about music and doesn’t care at all for frivolities leads me to believe that she probably never married. I would say that she lived her days as Mrs. Bennet’s companion, because I think that Kitty probably married a red-coat sometime in her life. Even if Mary and Mrs. Bennet have basically nothing in common, I guess they could’ve lived together, even after Mr. Bennet died and they were shooed from the house when Mr. Collins and Charlotte came to inherit the estate.
Q10) This is more of a question about you than about the characters, but: Do you identify more with Jane or Elizabeth? I guess that means, what are the differences of their characters and what do you like about them?
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Jefie
A9) I can also see Mary ending up an old spinster, a little bit like the character of Miss Bates in Emma. But I can also see her blossoming a little bit after her sisters leave, because she no longer would have to suffer from the comparison with her prettier, more accomplished sisters. In fact, I think that's why she seems to care so much about music, even though she's really bad at it, she feels like this might be the only way she can distinguish herself from her sisters. And who knows, another Mr. Collins might come along and fall for Mary if he's got no other choice!
A10) Interesting question... I guess I identify more with Elizabeth. When I hear about a situation or a piece of news, I like to think for myself instead of buying other people's opinions and I think that's part of what makes Lizzie so different from other female characters of her time. And I must admit that yes, I do stick to my first impressions sometimes. I'm definitely not like Jane who likes to think well of everyone she meets! Sometimes propriety gets the best of me and instead of speaking out like Lizzie does, I might act like Jane; but deep down I know I don't have Jane's goodness, although I wish I did.
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Jefie
Q11) Elizabeth was very much disturbed by Darcy's letter explaining his dealings with Wickham and the reasons why he had separated Bingley from Jane. As the reader, how did you react to the content of that letter?
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Kristie
A10) I think that I identify with both of them. In my thoughts, I definitely am like Lizzie and her feminist views (not so much that I’d go about protesting women’s rights because we really do have a lot). But my heart is probably more like Jane: I always want to see the best in everything and I like to believe everyone is a good person until they prove otherwise to me personally. I’m sort of passive about some things like Jane is too. Like with the whole Mr. Bingley situation: how she didn’t really flirt with him is sort of like me (I’m not a flirt).
A11) I think that one reason Elizabeth believed Wickham’s story as true was because she already had thoughts about Darcy’s character being something like Wickham described. But when she turned out to be wrong in her first impression it disturbed her that she fell for something so easily. I think that Elizabeth was also surprised to find that Darcy hadn’t known Jane’s intentions by not provoking Bingley. I mean, Elizabeth forgot that as her sister she knew Jane was that kind of person, but no one else will automatically know that Jane was just shy and really did like him.
Q12) When Elizabeth walks to Netherfield to visit Jane who’s sick, what do you think are the unsaid reactions of the characters Mr. Bingley, Miss Bingley, and Mr. Darcy?
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Kristie
I just thought of something: What are we gonna do when this board gets erased and we have to start all over again on the CW boards? How'll we remember what questions we've already asked?
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Jefie
Good point! I guess we could copy-paste it in a word document and post it again on the other board? I really wouldn't want to lose this thread!
(I'm off for the day but I'll post my answers tonight or tomorrow)
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Jefie
A11) I think I was tempted to believe Darcy immediately, whereas Elizabeth had to read the letter a second time to finally convince herself that everything he wrote about Wickham added up. I didn't appreciate his tone in the first part of the letter when he talks about Jane and Bingley but then I too started thinking about that dreadful ball at Netherfield and how everybody in Lizzie's family had behaved in such an odd way.
The letter really helped me move past my first impressions, good and bad, of all the characters - it truly is a turning point in the novel. Also, as the story is pretty much entirely told from Lizzie's point of view, I really appreciated getting an insight into Darcy's mind.
A12) Mr. Bingley: I think he really likes Elizabeth and after she walks all the way to Netherfield to see Jane, he probably likes her even more. He appreciates goodness and kind gestures and he's probably already thrilled at the idea of having such a nice sister-in-law.
Mrs. Bingley: well, she makes it clear that she doesn't appreciate Lizzie's presence but what is not said out loud, is that she hates having her in the same room as Darcy and is madly jealous since he made that comment about her fine eyes. It is quite clear that she wants Mr. Darcy for herself.
Mr. Darcy: I think he's quite happy to have the opportunity to take a closer look at this "phenomenon". She's already caught his attention and although I don't think he's already in love at that point, I'll bet he's probably very excited to hear that she's going to spend a few days with them.
Q13) How do you feel about the fact that Helen Fielding "borrowed" the plot of Pride and Prejudice for her novel "Bridget Jones's Diary"?
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Kristie
A12) Mr. Bingley, I think, admires Elizabeth for walking so far. I’m sure he knew the family didn’t have the best resources to get her there, plus, I think he’s happy that since Elizabeth walked she can’t take Jane away. Bingley likes that Lizzie loves her sister so much to walk in such horrid conditions just to make sure she’s comfortable and everything.
Miss Bingley seems to be, well, a HUGE snob. So, of course, she can’t believe that Lizzie would do something so ghastly as walk so far, let alone by herself and especially with the muddy-ness of the roads. She would never do that, but she’s wealthy enough to not have to. But I think she resents Lizzie for doing it, because it makes her seem like a real big baby, especially in front of Darcy who, I too think, she loves.
Mr. Darcy, I think, is surprised more than anything. Lizzie’s way of behaving/thinking has already shocked him, being so “unrefined” and all. I think that that is actually why he makes his big speech about how much women have to do to actually be considered “accomplished”.
A13) I actually haven’t read this, but I’ve seen the movie a couple times, so I understand what you mean in the question. First off, I think it is amazingly funny how Colin Firth got to play Mr. Darcy in P&P and Mark Darcy in BJ. I think that it was okay for Helen Fielding to borrow the plot of P&P to write Bridget Jones because it really is a good story. Of course most people probably know that it is based off P&P so I guess Austen is still getting credit for something (at least I hope so anyway). It was just a modern twist on an age old story. Just like Clueless is a new, Beverly Hills styled Emma. Austen wrote books that people could relate to, but some people just adapt it so they’re more appropriate for the modern adult/teen. If it gets Jane Austen’s general idea out there, I have no problem with it, but I hope in most cases she gets some credit for it.
Q14) Do you think that Lizzie is a bit jealous when Charlotte marries Mr. Collins? Lizzie detested the man from the start, so is it jealousy or complete bewilderment that is brought forth when Charlotte marries him?