|
Post by Lucky on Jul 10, 2008 6:53:23 GMT -5
About the thing with Emma and Mr. Elton.. I also think that the reason, why she was more struck by John's Knightley comment upon Mr. Elton's behaviour, is because of his behaviour upon Harriet, when she was so terribly sick. She realized that for him is more important some silly party than her and it naturally distress her, further when John Knightley said about him that he thought he likes Emma. In chapter number 8, Emma was more sure of his feelings.
And about question number 6.. I truly didn't expect it! And then, when it was clear, I realized that I was so silly and I didn't understand how I couldn't see it.. then when I came through again I understand that it was single valued.
|
|
|
Post by Lucky on Jul 10, 2008 7:09:18 GMT -5
And.. when lu wrote about the thing that Isabella and her dad have a lot in common, do you think that Emma and him have something in common too?
|
|
Michelle
First novel published
Posts: 2,563
|
Post by Michelle on Jul 10, 2008 21:04:08 GMT -5
I'm nowhere near finishing this section and have no real faith in my ability to catch up before the bar so I think I'm going to have to sit the bulk of this discussion out and catch up with you guys at the end.
|
|
|
Post by pixie on Jul 11, 2008 14:39:52 GMT -5
Ok, part 2. a couple of questions to start with: 5. Why was Emma more struck by John Knightley's comment upon Mr. Elton's behaviour (chapter 13), than what Mr.Knightley said about him (in chpater 8)? Just for a matter of circumstance (she herself has begun to see some weirdnesses in mr. Elton's behaviour) or for other reasons? 6. Did you expect Mr. Elton's proposal to Emma? A5. I agree with the reasons you guys gave but I also wanna add that Emma blocked out Mr. Knightley's comments because of the timing they were delivered. She may have thought that Mr. Knightley was only trying to prove her wrong in order to convince her to let Harriet marry Mr. Martin but John Knightley had no purpose to make such remarks about Mr. Elton unless he actually observed them. A6. Yes. Mr. Elton's proposal to Emma did not surprise me at all. I believed Mr. Knightley when he said that Mr. Elton would never pay attention to Harriet, therefore I expected that Mr. Elton's frequent visits to Hartfield were intended to pay attention to Emma not Harriet.
|
|
Lu
Administrator
Posts: 5,469
|
Post by Lu on Jul 11, 2008 15:25:04 GMT -5
8. I do think he wanted to marry Emma only to trade up and, I don't want to spoil anything ;D but I think the way he will act in the following chapters clearly shows it. Also the letter he sent to Mr.Woodhouse plainly told his resentment toward Emma...I mean, Mr. Darcy would never have acted in such a way! ;D ;D
I found interesting that both Emma and Mr.Elton were offended for the same reason after that proposal scene, btw wasn't Emma trying to make Harriet marry Mr.Elton to trade her up??
|
|
|
Post by Carma on Jul 12, 2008 16:42:37 GMT -5
oh, too bad Michelle, I hope you're able to catch up some day and Lu, I totally agree! 7. Everyone in Highbury appears to have an opinion about Frank Churchill, even if they never actually met him, what's your opinion of Frank Churchill? Do you agree with Emma or with Mr. Knightley about him? This question I can't really answer, I've read the book before.. and I don't really remember my first opinion about him.. but I think I was looking forward to his appearance.. whenever that would be. 8. In chapter 16 Emma thinks about the proposal and what went wrong etc. While thinking about it she implies that Mr. Elton asked her to marry him because she's of a better status. Do you think that is true? Did he want to marry her to 'trade up'? I kinda wish Mr. Elton didn't wanna marry her to trade up. But all 'facts' point in that direction, like Lu said. But I think the future happenings could also mean something else.. but we'll talk about that when it happens! So I'm not entirely sure he wanted to trade up..
|
|
Michelle
First novel published
Posts: 2,563
|
Post by Michelle on Jul 13, 2008 14:00:33 GMT -5
So I managed to catch up by rewarding myself with half a chapter every time I finish a set of problems. Maybe this is how I will survive the next 2 weeks without going crazy. I found interesting that both Emma and Mr.Elton were offended for the same reason after that proposal scene, btw wasn't Emma trying to make Harriet marry Mr.Elton to trade her up?? That was my thought exactly. She seemed so offended that Elton would want to marry up but was doing the exact thing for Harriet. I do think that a lot of it is just Emma's misguided thoughts. She thinks Elton is wrong because he doesn't actually love her whereas Harriet does love him. And she also believes that Harriet is actually of a higher station than she is. As for Mr. Knightly's comment to Emma, I think she was particularly struck by it because she generally realizes that his thoughts and judgments are correct (except for Mr. Martin). If he said it, then she really had to give it thought. It isn't like her father or anyone else saying it. My favorite line from this section is right after Emma and Knightly have the discussion about Mr. Martin and Harriet: "...she walked on, amusing herself in the consideration of the blunders which often arise form partial knowledge of circumstances, of the mistakes which people of high pretensions to judgment are forever falling into..." If only she applied her own intelligent ideas to herself...
|
|
|
Post by pixie on Jul 14, 2008 5:38:38 GMT -5
I just wanna add that I'm loving this book. I can't put it down. I'm having a hard time trying to stick to the schedule and not speed up.
|
|
Lu
Administrator
Posts: 5,469
|
Post by Lu on Jul 14, 2008 7:47:04 GMT -5
I'm glad you managed to catch up, Michelle! Sounds like a good plan, I should do that too...I still have one week before my next uni exam. My favorite line from this section is right after Emma and Knightly have the discussion about Mr. Martin and Harriet: "...she walked on, amusing herself in the consideration of the blunders which often arise form partial knowledge of circumstances, of the mistakes which people of high pretensions to judgment are forever falling into..." If only she applied her own intelligent ideas to herself... that line is great! There are many good ones in EmmaAnd.. when lu wrote about the thing that Isabella and her dad have a lot in common, do you think that Emma and him have something in common too? I'm not sure, they don't seem to have similar characters...the only similarity I can think of (right now) is that they both concern much about others, although in quite different ways! Mr.Woodhouse himself said he doesn't like marriage.
|
|
Michelle
First novel published
Posts: 2,563
|
Post by Michelle on Jul 14, 2008 16:24:06 GMT -5
I'm glad you managed to catch up, Michelle! Sounds like a good plan, I should do that too...I still have one week before my next uni exam. Good luck on your exam! And I definitely recommend my study method. It makes it much more bearable knowing you get some Jane Austen every hour or so.
|
|
|
Post by Lucky on Jul 15, 2008 8:24:54 GMT -5
And.. when lu wrote about the thing that Isabella and her dad have a lot in common, do you think that Emma and him have something in common too? I'm not sure, they don't seem to have similar characters...the only similarity I can think of (right now) is that they both concern much about others, although in quite different ways! Mr.Woodhouse himself said he doesn't like marriage. Yes.. When I read the section, It struck my eye, so I wondered if anoyone else can say the same. 7. Everyone in Highbury appears to have an opinion about Frank Churchill, even if they never actually met him, what's your opinion of Frank Churchill? Do you agree with Emma or with Mr. Knightley about him? I agreed more with Mr.Knightley, I don't know actually why, but it seems that Mr.Knightley is wiser than Emma and his opinions were closer to main.
|
|
Lu
Administrator
Posts: 5,469
|
Post by Lu on Jul 15, 2008 9:12:58 GMT -5
I'm glad you managed to catch up, Michelle! Sounds like a good plan, I should do that too...I still have one week before my next uni exam. Good luck on your exam! And I definitely recommend my study method. It makes it much more bearable knowing you get some Jane Austen every hour or so. Thank you! I've followed your method this morning and it works well
|
|
Michelle
First novel published
Posts: 2,563
|
Post by Michelle on Jul 15, 2008 9:28:34 GMT -5
I'm glad
|
|
Lu
Administrator
Posts: 5,469
|
Post by Lu on Jul 16, 2008 2:35:55 GMT -5
Ok, let's start with part 3: 9. Talking of Jane Fairfax's reserve, Emma said: Oftentimes very convenient, no doubt, but never pleasing. There is safety in reserve, but no attraction. One cannot love a reserved person.' Do you agree?
Speaking of good lines in Emma, I really liked this one about Miss Hawkins (Mrs.Elton): was in possession of an independent fortune, of so many thousands as would always be called ten I can't say why but it makes me giggle...I read the novel before, but at this point I'm always looking forward to Mrs.Elton's appearance. I think Frank Churchill really saw it right when he told Emma: "She who could do any thing in Highbury!" Apparently he unerstood how things work there! The Coles' invitation sort of reminded me of Mr.Martin's letter, they're both written with a propriety Emma didn't expect...but they got very different responses.
|
|
|
Post by Dominique on Jul 16, 2008 3:41:58 GMT -5
9. Talking of Jane Fairfax's reserve, Emma said: Oftentimes very convenient, no doubt, but never pleasing. There is safety in reserve, but no attraction. One cannot love a reserved person.'
Do you agree?
I don't agree. In my experience with friends who were at first rather reserved they may be a bit harder to really get to know at first, but in general their friendship, once established, can be far more genuine than that of some others because it's been built rather than just started instantly by them just deciding to be your instant friend. Obviously this is a pretty big generalisation but I think it's true some of the time.
Also the thing about Jane is at this stage of the book she is the one who actually seems to need Emma's help. She has no known good prospects apart from becoming a governess but Emma shows no interest in her. At this point she seems more in need of help than Harriet who already had marriage prospects.
The other thing is while Jane may be more reserved, Emma has known her for longer and they seem to have more in common in terms of intellegence and culture than Emma and Harriet but Emma still takes no interest in her. When I read this section I wondered if it was merely Jane's reserve or if Emma felt a bit threatened by her.
|
|