Lu
Administrator
Posts: 5,469
|
Post by Lu on Feb 27, 2008 7:54:39 GMT -5
I'll start with part two: I love the ending (I tend to enjoy happy endings in general ;D ) and the fact that Anne has an important, very relevant role in her own happy ending, I think it's great. And..perhaps I'm romantic but I love Captain Wentworth's letter to Anne ;D Everytime I read Persuasion I forgot about Mrs. Smith, until she appears in the story, I really like her character and I admire her being so cheerful (or trying to be) and in high spirit, considering all her troubles. I think she's a very strong woman, as Mrs. Croft. As usual, in the second part my high regard for the Crofts increase a lot..I don't know why. I love the scene at the printshop, when Anne meets Admiral Croft, who is looking at a print of a boat, he's great, so humorous! that scene always makes me feel in a good mood I should read it every morning before getting up. I also like the last line of chapter 16, although not as much as the one of chapter 3, anyway I like the images conveyed by that ending line and the beginning of the very next chapter. Speaking of the role of persuasion, I notice that Anne cannot be persuaded when she's convinced (..or persuaded...) she's right, for instance in chapter 17, when all her family has been invited to spend the evening at Laura Place but she was engaged to visit Mrs. Smith, I think that episode clearly shows that Anne has not a simply weak temper. Few lines on, there's Sir Walter talking about Mrs. Smith as "a poor widow, barely able to live..." and then Anne "left it to himself to recollect, that Mrs. Smith was not the only widow in Bath, between thirty and forty, with little to live on, and no sir-name of dignity" I wonder if Anne has anyone in particular in mind here, what do you guys think of it? the only person I can think of is Mrs. Clay...but I'm not sure she has "little to live on"...and Sir Walter is a widower himself and he is in Bath because he can't affor his old house...though he has a "sir-name" and he's older than forty... I found another hilarious point in Mary's letter, the one Anne receives in Bath, Mary is really funny, so incongruent...she considers weird that Mrs. Harville could bear to stay apart from her children and then she herself would be dispose of leaving hers for a month or six weeks...she's so funny. lol I can understand that her husband does not take her seriously! Their sort quarrel about the box secured at theatre really shows the contrast with an happy married couple like the Crofts. I'm planning to read the whole introduction because I think it shows some interesting points.
|
|
Michelle
First novel published
Posts: 2,563
|
Post by Michelle on Feb 27, 2008 9:05:40 GMT -5
I'll start with part two: Few lines on, there's Sir Walter talking about Mrs. Smith as "a poor widow, barely able to live..." and then Anne "left it to himself to recollect, that Mrs. Smith was not the only widow in Bath, between thirty and forty, with little to live on, and no sir-name of dignity" I wonder if Anne has anyone in particular in mind here, what do you guys think of it? the only person I can think of is Mrs. Clay...but I'm not sure she has "little to live on"...and Sir Walter is a widower himself and he is in Bath because he can't affor his old house...though he has a "sir-name" and he's older than forty... She was definitely thinking of Mrs. Clay. I think this also shows that Sir Walter never really had any eyes for her - she was not important enough for him to marry. I'll start with part two: I found another hilarious point in Mary's letter, the one Anne receives in Bath, Mary is really funny, so incongruent...she considers weird that Mrs. Harville could bear to stay apart from her children and then she herself would be dispose of leaving hers for a month or six weeks...she's so funny. lol I can understand that her husband does not take her seriously! Their sort quarrel about the box secured at theatre really shows the contrast with an happy married couple like the Crofts. Mary's letter was hilarious. I love how hypocritical she is. She's a great character. She also first says that The Crofts add nothing to the neighborhood but then says that when they leave for bath that the "neighborhood cannot spare such a pleasant family." I think this letter might be one of my favorite parts of the book. I was actually laughing out loud at it. I'll start with part two: Speaking of the role of persuasion, I notice that Anne cannot be persuaded when she's convinced (..or persuaded...) she's right, for instance in chapter 17, when all her family has been invited to spend the evening at Laura Place but she was engaged to visit Mrs. Smith, I think that episode clearly shows that Anne has not a simply weak temper. I think that's true. And she still believes that she was persuaded correctly originally (even though Wentworth does not). I think she has a very sound mind and she will only be persuaded when it makes the most sense logically.
|
|
oureternity
Collection of short stories bought by Random House
bam.
Posts: 1,568
|
Post by oureternity on Feb 28, 2008 12:48:41 GMT -5
You're right Isa, she's much more easier to connect with than other Austen's heroines. There was a particular quote which I really liked in the book, Chapter 7, when the ladies of Captain Wentworth's party compared Anne to her sister: "She is pretty, I think, Anne Elliot; very pretty, when one comes to look at her. It is not the fashion to say so, but I confess I admire her more than her sister.... No comparison. But the men are all wild after Miss Elliot. Anne is too delicate for them" - I thought this quote was very realistic and very true so it was really easy for me to connect with. Anne may be prettier than her sister, but there's something very reserved about her that makes the men doubt her openness with them, unlike her sister being more talkative and light, she keeps things to herself and so in order to expose her intelligence and real inner beauty one needs to really get to know her, in her sister's case it's easier.
|
|
oureternity
Collection of short stories bought by Random House
bam.
Posts: 1,568
|
Post by oureternity on Feb 28, 2008 12:58:33 GMT -5
P.S Did you guys know Bridget Jones: The Edge of Reason is a parody to this book? I just found that out! That's so cool!
|
|
|
Post by Carma on Feb 28, 2008 13:20:51 GMT -5
Yeah, I know! while I was reading and I came to the part with Wentworth's letter to Anne, I thought: Hey! this is totally Bridget Jones: the Edge of reason.. So, I finished it and I loved it Especially towards the ending i found it difficult to put down. Except for the part with Mr. Elliott and Mrs. Clay everything made a lot of sense.. I just found that part a bit weird, when Mrs. Clay (thats her name right?) and Mr. Elliott were suddenly seen together etc. I think Mary is hilarious! She really made me laugh, she's so silly.. I had another point, but i can't remember it.. will get back to it later..
|
|
Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
Posts: 7,214
|
Post by Kristie on Feb 29, 2008 12:27:58 GMT -5
Alright, here's what I have for the second part:
Everytime I read a JA novel, I am reminded again how important social networking was to them. I mean, sure, big businesses nowadays with their CEOs and such have networks of people they know who have influence. But social networking was very important in JA's novels. Look at the ridiculous things Mr. Collins did and said to protect his greatest acquaintance, Lady Catherine. In Persuasion, Lady Russell told Anne that her relation with Lady Dalrymple was "an acquaintance worth having." Anne might have been embarassed by her family and cousins, but being nobility--however low--cannot hurt her.
Just wanted to mention that I caught a line in Chapter 18: "Her early impressions were incurable." (Meaning Anne's first impressions of Mr. Elliot.) It is different than Elizabeth Bennet's first impression of Darcy, because Anne is correct.
I've decided that Mary annoys me too much. She changes her mind way too much. In her letter to Anne, she contradicts herself--and it's not even that long.
Has anyone else realized that the last bit of Chapter 23 is the only time Austen has extensively given the male perspective of the story? She relays Captain Wentworth's story from the beginning of the novel up to the point of writing his letter to Anne. I suppose Austen has written a little bit from the male side, but this is the only time I can recall that she writes multiple pages of it.
|
|
Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
Posts: 7,214
|
Post by Kristie on Feb 29, 2008 12:30:56 GMT -5
By the way, is Mrs. Clay widowed or divorced? The way I read it I sort of thought she was divorced, but you're all saying she's widowed.
***EDIT*** Are we going to discuss the original ending to the book? I also have supplementary stuff in my book I might mention when we're done with the last part's discussion.
|
|
|
Post by Carma on Feb 29, 2008 13:01:59 GMT -5
I think Mrs. Clay was widowed.. because thats what was written...
also, in the beginning of the last chapter theres something from the 'I' perspective.. Is that supposed to be Jane Austen herself?
|
|
Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
Posts: 7,214
|
Post by Kristie on Feb 29, 2008 13:24:11 GMT -5
Yeah, a few times, like in the last chapter, there is a lot of the author talking from her perspective--or at least the narrator.
|
|
Lu
Administrator
Posts: 5,469
|
Post by Lu on Feb 29, 2008 15:46:11 GMT -5
Just wanted to mention that I caught a line in Chapter 18: "Her early impressions were incurable." (Meaning Anne's first impressions of Mr. Elliot.) It is different than Elizabeth Bennet's first impression of Darcy, because Anne is correct. I noticed that and I thought of Elizabeth Bennet too. So, first impressions aren't always wrong.. Has anyone else realized that the last bit of Chapter 23 is the only time Austen has extensively given the male perspective of the story? She relays Captain Wentworth's story from the beginning of the novel up to the point of writing his letter to Anne. I suppose Austen has written a little bit from the male side, but this is the only time I can recall that she writes multiple pages of it. You're right, I didn't realize that before.
|
|
Michelle
First novel published
Posts: 2,563
|
Post by Michelle on Feb 29, 2008 16:58:10 GMT -5
Yeah, a few times, like in the last chapter, there is a lot of the author talking from her perspective--or at least the narrator. I noticed that in one point while I was reading S&S yesterday, too. It seemed odd to only do it once in a novel.
|
|
|
Post by bookaddict on Mar 1, 2008 13:49:00 GMT -5
I've had a really busy week, so I'm finally able to post. I really enjoyed this novel. It is the third Austen novel that I read. I find her language a little hard to understand at the beginning because I'm trying to figure out all the characters and how they are related or associated with each other. Once I understand the characters it gets much easier.
In the second half of the novel, I was getting really scared that Anne would marry Mr. Elliot. I knew there was something about him that I didn't like, and when Mrs. Smith explains about his past I was really happy that Anne was advised of his character. Anne was thinking that it would have the same name as her mother (Lady Elliot) but she really didn’t feel for Mr. Elliot. I think Anne thought that it might be nice to marry, and she had little hope that Captain Wentworth would forgive her, never mind love her again. I felt Anne’s pain when she’s waiting for Captain Wentworth to fall in love again. She was wondering if it would be Henriette or Louisa. Can you imagine loving someone and then waiting for them to love someone else? You know you made a mistake, but think you can never make it right. I thought it was really strange that all the characters seem to forget that Anne was engaged to him. The talk to him getting married, and needing to find a wife as if Anne was never married to him. No one ever thought to ask her how she felt about him being around all the time. When Louisa had the accident and Captain Wentworth was trying to do everything he could for her, Anne was trying to not feel hurt that he might love her. I just kept thinking, PLEASE do not marry Mr. Elliot. Lady Russell really thought she was doing what was best for Anne. You can really tell that she truly loves Anne, she is obviously her favorite. She turns to Anne for her opinions. Mary’s husband married her after Anne turned him down, this is a little strange to me but I know that was common in their day. How strange it must be to have someone propose to your sister, she says no, then he asks you. I really enjoyed the novel. I thought it was great. You can really tell how important social networking is. Many of these families only have their social life to look forward too. I’m ready for my next Austen!
|
|
Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
Posts: 7,214
|
Post by Kristie on Mar 2, 2008 13:39:04 GMT -5
I don't really think many people knew that Anne and Captain Wentworth had been engaged. Obviously Sir Walter and Anne's sisters knew, as did Lady Russell, but as for all of the Musgroves I don't think they ever knew their connected past. I don't know if Captain Wentworth ever told his sister (Mrs. Croft) about the engagement because he might not have seen/written to her before Anne broke it off.
|
|
|
Post by bookaddict on Mar 2, 2008 13:57:04 GMT -5
but even her sister acts as if they were never engaged.
|
|
Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
Posts: 7,214
|
Post by Kristie on Mar 2, 2008 14:04:28 GMT -5
Yeah, that's true. Mary doesn't say anything about it, but she's very self-absorbed so it's not like a weird thing for her character to do. Or did Mary know? I can't remember, I keep thinking she was gone somewhere when that happened. But even if she knew or not, it wouldn't have caused any great difference in her actions towards the situation. I know Elizabeth knew, but she didn't do anything because she wasn't the one constantly putting them in the same company and she still didn't really like Capt W.
|
|