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Post by Pilleriin on Jun 3, 2008 11:51:09 GMT -5
How do you guys feel about the relationship between Julia and Winston at this point? Even though they're both against the party, they go about it in very different ways and somehow it seems like Julia is not fit to be Winston's partner. She keeps her revolution at a very personal level (from the waist down, as Winston puts it), whereas Winston actually wants to change the world. I thought it was interesting how when O'Brien asked them whether they were willing to be separated, Julia's the one who said no, it felt like Winston was on the verge of saying yes, which to me means that their priorities are not the same. I agree, I think that Julia wasn't really ready to revolt like Winston was. She didn't want to go jail nor die. It seemed to me that Julia did only those things because she thought that she loved him, but I also think that she actually didn't know what love was. Winston didn't love her as much she loved him. I really felt sorry for Julia. I also found it a bit frustrating how Julia couldn't have cared less about the book, but then again, that chapter was so long, I almost fell asleep while reading it too! I actually fall asleep when I was reading that chapter, it was too long! Orwell should have shorten it a bit. Oh and at the end of Part 2, Julia and Winston get caught by the Thought Police - turns out there had been a telescreen in the room all along, and Mr. Charrington was in fact a member of the Thought Police, which I still find really hard to believe! I just remembered that when Julia and Winston were in that room for the first time, Julia wanted to clean the picture where the camera was hidden. I was so angry and just wanted to yell 'Why didn't you dust the picture before? Maybe it would have saved your lives!' (I get bit carried away, when I'm reading a good book. ) When I read it the first time, I was really surprised, I didn't expect that at all. ok, I don't really remember what happens at the end? haha anyway, I didn't think julia and winston really fit for each other. But after he met her, he learned a lot more about the world outside of the.. ministry? So, him meeting her was good, but I don't think they really belonged together... I think that too. They don't belong together. She loved him, but in my mind Winston was a bit too obsessed with O'Brian and with the Brotherhood ( I hope I got it right, I'm reading it in Estonian) I actually thought for a moment that Winston loves O'Brian more than Julia. ;D
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Post by Pilleriin on Jun 5, 2008 10:12:52 GMT -5
I don't understand one thing, did the Party only exist in London? What about Australia or US which were also part of Oceania?
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Post by Carma on Jun 5, 2008 10:42:38 GMT -5
I don't understand one thing, did the Party only exist in London? What about Australia or US which were also part of Oceania? hmm, yeah, I was also wondering a bit about that...I think they called the entire england as London?
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Lu
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Post by Lu on Jun 5, 2008 15:25:49 GMT -5
I agree with you guys about Winston and Julia's relationship, I don't think they fit for each other, I felt it stronger after Winston dreamt about his mother, she didn't sound very interested in it. I actually thought for a moment that Winston loves O'Brian more than Julia. ;D ;D I thought the same... I don't understand one thing, did the Party only exist in London? What about Australia or US which were also part of Oceania? hmm, yeah, I was also wondering a bit about that...I think they called the entire england as London? yeah, me too...I think the party exist in all Oceania. When Winston and Julia went to meet O'Brien and he asked them what they're prepared to do for the brotherhood, I wonder why he talked only of doing cruel things...I mean, I don't think that's no other way to oppose the party and big brother. Their first contact with the brotherhood was very different than what I'd expected.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Jun 6, 2008 6:16:32 GMT -5
In Goldstein's book, they explain that the world is divided into 3 superpowers (Oceania, Eastasia and Eurasia). If I remember correctly, Oceania is made up of England, the Americas and Australia. I'm assuming the other 2 superpowers also have a similar Party because even though they're always at war, it seems like they need each other to keep the Revolution going. IWhen Winston and Julia went to meet O'Brien and he asked them what they're prepared to do for the brotherhood, I wonder why he talked only of doing cruel things...I mean, I don't think that's no other way to oppose the party and big brother. Their first contact with the brotherhood was very different than what I'd expected. The answer comes in the next section, lu!
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Lu
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Post by Lu on Jun 6, 2008 14:49:29 GMT -5
IWhen Winston and Julia went to meet O'Brien and he asked them what they're prepared to do for the brotherhood, I wonder why he talked only of doing cruel things...I mean, I don't think that's no other way to oppose the party and big brother. Their first contact with the brotherhood was very different than what I'd expected. The answer comes in the next section, lu! I haven't started the next section yet ;D I read 1984 before but I'm not sure what is going to happen next...I forgot a lot of details...
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Lu
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Post by Lu on Jun 7, 2008 7:28:45 GMT -5
;D You were right, Isa ;D
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Jun 7, 2008 7:59:39 GMT -5
Hey guys, since Part 3 is rather short, would you mind doing it all at once?
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Post by Pilleriin on Jun 8, 2008 4:27:23 GMT -5
I've already finished the whole book, so I don't mind.
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Lu
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Post by Lu on Jun 8, 2008 12:31:20 GMT -5
I wouldn't mind I haven't finished the book yet but i think I will tonight.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Jun 15, 2008 10:09:30 GMT -5
So what did you guys think of Part 3? I wasn't really surprised that the book ended the way it did, but I was still a bit disappointed. The end of 1984 left a sour taste in my mouth, but I guess that's what Orwell intended to do all along. I did find the appendix on Newspeak very interesting though, again I thought it was interesting to see how they could successfully control people's minds by controlling language.
I'm glad I finally made it through 1984, but I can't say it was as good as I thought it would be. In that book category, I still prefer Animal Farm, Brave New World and Fahrenheit 451. I've got a feeling that Orwell was too emotionally involved in the subject of the book and that he so badly wanted to make a point that it affected the artistic value of the novel. Am I the only one who feels like this?
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Post by Carma on Jun 15, 2008 16:46:39 GMT -5
to be honest.. I sterted reading the appendix, but I got bored! haha It was kind of a weird part, I thought... I didn't know what to expect from this book... so it surprised me from time to time.. I thought I found the last part easier to read (don't remember too well) but it was interesting! hmm, I'm not sure about the artistic value of the novel... I never read a book like that.. haha
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Lu
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Post by Lu on Jun 16, 2008 7:13:46 GMT -5
So what did you guys think of Part 3? I wasn't really surprised that the book ended the way it did, but I was still a bit disappointed. The end of 1984 left a sour taste in my mouth, but I guess that's what Orwell intended to do all along. It was the same for me, especially the first time I read it because I was really convinced it would end in a different way. In the last part, at the Chestnut Tree, I found interesting the fact that Winston was behaving like the three members of the party (Aaronson, Jones and Rutherford) when he saw them there, that he was in their same situation. He would look like them to an observer.
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Post by Pilleriin on Jun 16, 2008 12:41:04 GMT -5
I really hoped that in the end Wintson will not give up, but he did. I was really disappointed and also sad, because it felt like Orwell had lost his faith. In the last part, at the Chestnut Tree, I found interesting the fact that Winston was behaving like the three members of the party (Aaronson, Jones and Rutherford) when he saw them there, that he was in their same situation. He would look like them to an observer. I agree, I think that he was exactly like the three members and I think that he kinda realized it too.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Jun 16, 2008 20:15:21 GMT -5
Yes, and I also saw a connection between Winston and O'Brien - do you think O'Brien might have started out as Winston but then got broken down by the Party? At some point he makes a comment about how "They got me long ago", so that's what got me thinking that maybe the bond Winston felt there was between him and O'Brien might have been that they were both meant to go down the same road...
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