Bina
First novel published
Posts: 2,472
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Post by Bina on Jan 11, 2007 9:44:57 GMT -5
Since we´re discussing current politics, what´s everyone´s take on the Guantanamo detainment camp? It´s five years old today! I think it´s unbelievable that the US get away with this inhuman treatment, other countries might talk and discuss but they are not really doing anything! Has anyone seen the film about it?
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Isa
Administrator
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Post by Isa on Jan 11, 2007 10:44:02 GMT -5
I've seen it (The Road to Guantanamo), it's a very good film and it was unbelievable to see what those three guys went through. And it's just 3 guys out of the hundreds of prisoners that are still there. But to be honest, I don't know much about what goes on at the Guantanamo Bay camp except for what I've seen in the film, so it's hard to comment on it.
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Bina
First novel published
Posts: 2,472
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Post by Bina on Jan 11, 2007 16:19:35 GMT -5
I´ve seen documentaries and read articles from different countries and I don´t think anyone really knows what´s going on exactly but keeping people locked up without any rights for an indefinite amount of time is not okay. These things are pretty scary and they are just helping spread terrorism, these people have families. I thought the film was good, but it was a bit one sided that no other sources and point of views were included. But apparently the actors were taken to the police to be bullied for a while for making this film.
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Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
Posts: 7,214
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Post by Kristie on Jan 11, 2007 20:22:03 GMT -5
I don't really know what happens there because obviously the US doesn't tell us the bad stuff they do (therefore I guess they should technically leave out all the stuff on the war). Can you lead me to some somewhat unbiased info about it?
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Post by Dominique on Jan 12, 2007 23:33:47 GMT -5
I have heard some pretty bad things about Guantanamo Bay, but I know more about Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, hearing about the horrible ways prisioners were treated there makes it very difficult for a lot of people to support the troops. All those photos that surfaced of the sadistic things soilders made people do were incredibly shocking.
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Bina
First novel published
Posts: 2,472
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Post by Bina on Jan 13, 2007 9:03:00 GMT -5
The prisoners there are supposed to be terrorists but I´ve checked different articles and channels to get any reliable information ( mostly watching al jazeera, cnn and a German channel helps) and most prisoners are from a variety of countries and many appear to be taxi drivers or peasants. Others were forced to join the Taliban military or refused to fight and were left for the US army to get rid of them. Even US intelligence claims that about 10% have no information and many others have already told them all they know. There is a case of one prisoner known who seems to have amnesia another was a 70 year old man from Afghanistan or a 16 year old who has never fought for the Taliban. Three prisoners seem to have commited suicide, there were 34 suicide attempts and many others are on hunger strike. They have no outside contact and are not allowed legal counsel and no trials. They are not allowed the status of prisoner of war and the government wants to claim one part of the Geneva Convention but ignores the other. But apparently their hospital is very good but in the worst part they have to beg for water and toilet paper. I guess that´s where the dangerous ones are. Things seem to have gotten slightly better since journalists were allowed a tour but it is really difficult to find good information. So, I think I´ve exhausted my political vocabulary
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Post by Dominique on Jan 13, 2007 9:11:24 GMT -5
it kind of makes me wonder about the prisons that we might not know about... Thanks for all the extra info! The methods they use on these prisoners are not at all acceptable. I don't think a civilised country should be torturing people at all, whether they're at war or not. It's disguisting. Which US politician was it who got in trouble last year for saying these list of things like sleep deprivation and being threatened by a dog weren't things he considered real torture.
In regard to all the statistics you said about people in there, the photo from the prison that became part of a big scandal where a woman officer was walking a prisioner around on his hands and knees on a dog leash, he was a severely mentally ill patient. The article I read said all these mentally ill things he did while he was in there, i don't really want to go into them, but he was definately someone who needed an immense amount of professional psychiatric care. It just goes to show they don't care who they put in there.
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Isa
Administrator
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Post by Isa on Jan 13, 2007 9:28:32 GMT -5
Which US politician was it who got in trouble last year for saying these list of things like sleep deprivation and being threatened by a dog weren't things he considered real torture. I think it was Donald Rumsfeld, the former Secretary of Defense.
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Post by Dominique on Jan 13, 2007 9:29:42 GMT -5
yeah I think it must have been, it sounds right.
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Post by gilmoreren on Jan 28, 2007 12:32:59 GMT -5
Obviously I'm coming to this issue from a British perspective so my view will be coloured by the news and opinion here. The BBC have conducted some relatively objective reporting on it and it doesn't really look good. The problem is it directly contravenes the Geneva Convention, a law set up to determine the treatment of 'prisoners of war/conflict'. In that context, it seems that with the existence of this prison it renders any attempt by the US to responsibly police the world and comment on other nations as hypocritical and somewhat galling. BUT the UK can also be blamed for being complicit in Guantanamo. As a nation the UK have allowed the capture and imprisonment of British citizens who were held there without charge and without a trial for years. Only due to a lot of national pressure did the UK act to persuade the US to release them in 2005. The thing is, this was a huge deal because there are MILLIONS of British Asians, they are a huge part of our culture and they weren't alone in fighting to release the remaining four detainees - most of the UK stood alongside the Asian community and called for their release. I suppose the issue goes much wider - as a result of the 9/11 Iraq 7/7 thing, security has become a huge issue that has directly impacted upon the UK's sense of civil rights and freedom - there are millions of UK citizens who are against the new legislation that has been pushed through about detaining terror suspects, and the treatment of young Asian men. The Jean Charles de Menezes tragedy showed just what can go wrong when a police force acts with a knee jerk reaction without thinking. Anyways, those are my thoughts. I shan't run on about this as it's not the time or the place
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Isa
Administrator
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Post by Isa on Jan 28, 2007 13:00:51 GMT -5
It's great to hear your thoughts on this issue, Gilmoreren. Like you said, people can have different takes on things depending on where they come from and what information is available to them. Every subject is up for discussion on this board, as long as it's done with respect of other people's opinions
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Post by gilmoreren on Jan 28, 2007 14:49:35 GMT -5
It's great to hear your thoughts on this issue, Gilmoreren. Like you said, people can have different takes on things depending on where they come from and what information is available to them. Every subject is up for discussion on this board, as long as it's done with respect of other people's opinions Thanks for your thoughts Jefie - I'm happy to contribute to the discussion. I know with things like politics you have to be careful and in the past I have been flamed by other people for my opinions so i know to tread carefully. Its refreshing to see mature political discussion, quite often it descends into childish fighting. Did you guys hear about the Jean Charles de Menezes case? He was Brazilian and in the UK on a visa, he got chased for apparently jumping a tube station barrier and was followed onto a train and shot seven times. Afterwards it turned out he was innocent of all charges and had died due to a 'shoot to kill' policy. There was a huge scandal here and the chief of the metropolitan police had to resign over it.
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Isa
Administrator
Posts: 6,995
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Post by Isa on Jan 28, 2007 16:46:23 GMT -5
Whoa, no, I'd never heard about that, that's awful! I find it hard sometimes to keep up to date with what's going on in the world because news channels will only show you what they want, so frustrating! It's a bit easier to stay well informed by surfing the net, but that takes time and dedication. Feels weird to say that, but I think one of my best sources of information in The Daily Show, which is a fake news show!! I completely understand what you mean when you say that politics can be a very touchy subjects, it's not something I usually talk about. But on this board we've discussed topics such as religion and abortion, and I was amazed at how respectful and non judgemental all the members were. We're a pretty amazing bunch
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Post by gilmoreren on Jan 28, 2007 17:42:47 GMT -5
Whoa, no, I'd never heard about that, that's awful! I find it hard sometimes to keep up to date with what's going on in the world because news channels will only show you what they want, so frustrating! It's a bit easier to stay well informed by surfing the net, but that takes time and dedication. Feels weird to say that, but I think one of my best sources of information in The Daily Show, which is a fake news show!! I completely understand what you mean when you say that politics can be a very touchy subjects, it's not something I usually talk about. But on this board we've discussed topics such as religion and abortion, and I was amazed at how respectful and non judgemental all the members were. We're a pretty amazing bunch The Daily Show is awesome isn't it? Top World news site tip - BBC website I'm glad to hear this is a good place for mature debate and discussion
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Post by Dominique on Jan 28, 2007 19:13:20 GMT -5
I heard about that incident, it was pretty shocking. I heard the policemen were in plain clothes as well so he thought he was just running away from people chasing him on the news, is that right?
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