BOOK CLUB BOOK #4: THE LIFE OF PI BY YANN MARTEL

[Dominique]

Book club book number four will be "The Life of Pi" by Yann Martel, a contemporary pick. It will be followed by book club book number five "Reading Lolita in Tehran" by Azar Nafisi.

This thread will remain locked until discussion officially begins on "The Life of Pi", which will be after discussion on book club book number three "Fahrenheit 451" has concluded. Jefie or I will unlock this thread and officially start the discussion as soon as that happens.

This gives you all some time to go out and buy the books and get started

[Isa]

Here's a tentative schedule for Life of Pi, you guys can PM me to let me know if it's alright.

Intro & Chapters 1-15 - Start posting on March 1st
Chapters 16-36 - Start posting on March 10
Chapters 37-50 - Start posting on March 20
Chapters 51-60 - Start posting on March 30
Chapters 61-79 - Start posting on April 8
Chapters 80-91 - Start posting on April 18
Chapters 92-99 - Start posting on April 28

[Isa]

This thread is now officially open!! And I guess I'll start the discussion:


I love how the novel begins with the author's note. Even though I know Life of Pi is a work of fiction, the introduction succeeded in putting me in the right mood: I want to believe that what I'm about to read is a true story, and so far the feeling has stuck with me.

I was also fascinated by Pi's description of the zoo. Like many people, even though I do enjoy going to the zoo because I love watching the animals, I can't help but feel a bit sad when I see these beautiful beasts stuck in small enclosures. Pi's description of how the animals actually adapt to the new restrained territory seemed believable and made me rethink about my own preconceptions. I thought it was great that by taking on a subject as simple as animals living in a zoo, the author was able to challenge my beliefs early on.

On the subject of religion, however, I wasn't convinced. I'm not ready to believe that agnosticism is something as simple as a refusal to take sides, a spiritual immobility. I don't believe, as Pi seems to do, that religion is mandatory, whether it'd be the practice of a certain faith or the practice of atheism. I guess the only think I agree with so far on this topic is that atheism is a religion. But this topic was only brought up briefly in the first 15 chapters, so maybe I'll feel differently about it later on. The great thing with how the book is constructed is that I'm now ready to be challenged, whatever the topic may be!

[Michelle]

I'm liking this book a lot so far. I, too, liked the description and defense of zoos that took up most of this section. He made a lot of good points and analogies which makes you think that zoo animals are probably happy despite the fact that they aren't free. I am also enjoying the way that he is describing his childhood. It isn't just description after description, but a series of stories that allows us to see into his early life.

As for the religious aspect, I don't think we know enough yet to really discuss it. I do like how he usesreligion when describing other aspects of his life. Like when he talks about how he changed his name and he compares it to the biblical figures who changed there names at a significant point in their lives. It makes me think that religion really is important to him (aside from him telling us so).

I haven't made up my mind yet about whether I like the author's interjections. I was confused at first (until I went back and read the intro and then I understood that it was the author describing grown-up Pi). I am hoping that it has some importance later because right now, I just want to hear from Pi himself.

[Lu]

I'm enjoying Life of Pi so far. I think introduction make me appreciate better the part of book i've read until now.

I have never been to a zoo because thinking about animals in enclosures has always made me feel upset; instead Pi's description of zoo's organization and of animals' adapting, made me think and change my mind, expecially when he compares animals turn out from a familiar territory with people chased from their home.
It was terrible to read how many animals die in zoos, I didn't hear that before and I was shocked...it's such cruel!

I think we don't know enough to discuss the religious subject. Up to chapter 15, I agree with the fact that atheism is a religion and I liked what Pi says about talking of religion with his biology teacher: "I was more afraid that in a few words thrown out he might destroy something that I loved", I've known that kind of feeling too.

I enjoyed Pi's description of his very first day of secondary-school and what he did to make everyone know his name clearly!

[Dominique]

I feel the same as all of you about the religion aspect, I agree strongly with his view that athiesm is a religion, but like Isa I didn't think much of his take on agnosticism. Choosing doubt, as he puts it, is a very simplified view of the school of thought and I don't think it's altogether accurate. Although I guess thinking about it you can see that because athiesm is basically a religion and he values religion so much, choosing to have a system of belief that is niether similar to a religion or religious must be something he can't really comprehend. I agree Lu we probably don't know enough at this stage, I've only just finished Chapter 15 and I feel like there is going to be a lot more on the subject still to come.

I really liked the line in Chapter 4 "I know zoos are no longer in people's good graces. Religion faces the same problem. Certain illusions about freedom plague them both."

I like reading about all the animals and the analogies too, but towards the end of this section I was starting to feel like it was maybe a bit too much and could be interwoven into the story a bit better, especially when he referenced an academic source in Chapter 13. But then I guess we all have a pet subject we love to talk about at any chance so in some ways it could be seen as realistic.

I liked the author's interjections for this reason, it provided the detail about Pi that was lacking from the latter chapters. I think it was actually needed in this section to make it seem more well rounded and less of a rant. But then I think I like that sort of thing, it makes it seem more like a profile of someone and makes you less likely to get sick of seeing the world through only the protagonist's eyes.

Oh yeah, the intro really got me in also

[monetcliche]

Hi! I actually just finished reading this last January. If anyone needs help with certain parts, I can help! Of course you ladies (and gentlemen?) no doubt will be able to comprehend each page, but just in case I can't say much opinion-wise because I've already finished it... my thoughts are too clouded by the rest of the story. But I think I can say this: the opening definitely lays the path for the rest of the book.

[whitewarrior]

Yes, haha, there are at least a few gentlemen here.

I just finished chapter 15, and I'm really excited about the rest of the book. I think the writing style is great - professional enough to flow smoothly, but ble to hold attention, too. I loved his zoo stories and descriptions. Does anyone else get the feeling that when he's talking about the animals, in a way, he's also talking about humans and humanity as well? Like, for example, the part about the animal's flight distances, and how people are generally very personal and inclined to fly from closeness or close relationships, from being vulnerable, and the tools to bridge those gaps are "the knowledge we have...the (things) we provide, the protection we afford..."

Also, I thought that the next chapters (10-11) were also sort of a metaphor for people, about escaping, and how people generally try to escape FROM something (pain, sorrow, "matrimonial strife"), and about how some people simply cannot or do not want to me "domesticated"

Make any sense? I would love to hear feedback from you guys about this, pro or con. I think this is a really interesting discussion topic.

[Dominique]

I think you're right, he could definately be also talking about humanity as well, maybe without even realising he's doing it. Like maybe he's inadvertantly drawing our attention to things about animals that can be similar to humanity?

[zeldafitzgerald]

One of my favorite parts is when two pizzas come for Ian Hoolihan.

I love the parts about the zoo. Like a lot of people, I've never thought about zoos this way before, it's incredibly interesting.

I'm re-reading the book according to the schedule, and I'm not quite up to 15 yet, I hope to finish tonight. I don't want to post too much before I get to 15, because I don't want to accidentally discuss too far ahead. But I must say that it's incredibly fun to re-read this book. It's very interesting the second time around too.

[Lu]

The part of the two pizzas is great.

I agree, I think the author makes a similarity of humans and animals but I can't feel if it's wanted or not. Maybe is such a similarity that makes author's description of the zoo results so good and interesting...that makes any sense?

[whitewarrior]

Okay, so we're finally open for the next round of discussion!!!

I'm loving the book so far. I feel like it's a lot more than a good, interesting story; I feel that The Life of Pi is a social and personal commentary that really makes use of the metaphor to state its point (more on that in a second).

I loved, loved, loved Ch. 23 - the one where the three religious leaders have their big argument. I thought it was a riveting (and probably altogether accurate) representation of the misunderstanding, contempt, and general judgment that exists between differing organized religions. It did a great job of pointing out the flaws or, perhaps rather, the inconsistancies, in each religion in relation to each other. Overall, I thought this was a BRILLIANT chapter.

Pi's personal view(s) on religion were altogether inspiring ("I just want to love God") I love how Pi has found the beauty of each faith, how he's found and begun to understand each religion's different methods of connecting with God. His faith and motivation are so pure and inspirational. He truly does want to just love God, in the best way that he can.

Chapter 25 was a fascinating commentary on faith life and hypocrisy. I think the philosophy presented therein is just so amazing. If you skimmed over this chapter, definately give it another try. I get the feeling this message of selflessness is going to be really important in the overall message of the book.

Finally, My absolute favorite chapter this week was chapter 32, which is when Mr. Kumar comes to the zoo. If this chapter isn't a straight-up metaphor, I don't know what on earth is! I believe that the fact that this mentor of spirituality and the mentor of intellectuality share the same name is a great symbol for the interrelation (and, of course, frequent confusion) of the two different parts of the self and of the philosophy - the spiritual and the intellectual. I believe that Martel is trying to really drive in the idea that Faith and Reason are really two parts of one thing, and he does this by naming both representations "Kumar" (btw - does anyone know of a translation or etymology for that name? That would probably be really interesting...). I also loved the symbol of Mr. Kumar (the spiritual one) being extraordinarily difficult for Pi to spot, but Mr. Kumar ends up finding him when Pi does not expect it. I think that's a really interesting comment on how a lot of people experience religion - though they may search tirelessly for the truth, in the end, the truth ends up finding them .

Here's where I'm not so sure about the symbolism. The image of the division of the carrot seems clearly metaphorical, but I have no idea what concept Yann Martel was trying to underline with that.

Any ideas, comments, suggestions, input, output, agreement, disagreement - basically any conversation fodder you guys have - please, I'm so, so interested to hear it. Happy trails!

[Lu]

Personally, I enjoyed more the first 15 chapters than the second 15s. I think there's more about religious subject to discuss it.

I think the most interesting part, this round, was the argument between the 3 religious leaders, it's a sadly actual and accurate described debate. I like when Pi speaks using Gandhi's words :"All religions are true", that made me think about "Angela's Ashes" and the young Frank, to whom had been taught that there's no salvation out of Catholicism,when he was wondering how Protestan children could be so happy if they are condemn to hell.
I think that descriptions of Pi's meeting with the 3 religions and how the 3 religious men acts in those situations are in a great contrast with their argument, when they understand Pi is a Muslim,a Hinduist and a Christian at same time. I felt that contrast also for the fact that Pi says what of good every religion gave to him...why the 3 wise men can't recognise what they have in common?
Don't they all want to love God?

I'm a Christian and I've never thought that a God "shamming human tragedy" can be seen as a tainted, blighted God...even if I don't agree (but that's just my opinion) it was very interesting to hear a different point of view. I felt something of irrational in Pi's talking with the Christian priest.

I'm not sure about too symbolism, too. I'm sorry whitewarrior! But I'll think about it!
I found some difficulties to say something about this part of the book and I hope what I have written makes sense.

[Isa]

I have to admit, I also didn't enjoy these chapters as much as the first ones we read. Whereas Pi's argument about zoos had captivated me and challenged my beliefs, his argument about religion left me uninterested for the most part, despite the fact that I was ready to be challenged once again. I thought the way Pi embraced all three religions was interesting and even funny, and I enjoyed the beautiful naivety that was behind it all, but I can't say that I found it inspirational.

For the second time in the book the question of agnosticism is brought up and again I don't agree with Pi's perception of it. He describes agnostic people as overly rational people, who are unwilling to take a leap of faith - to me agnostic people (and maybe I should specify that I'm not agnostic) have simply decided to keep their mind open to everything there might or might not be, instead of picking one set of beliefs and sticking to it not matter what. In fact, it strikes me that Pi, with his three religions, has much more in common with agnostic people than with atheists or other religious people, as we clearly see in Chapter 23 when the three leaders meet and are extremely upset by Pi's spiritual choices.

I also thought the meeting of the three religious men was well done and I didn't have a hard time picturing it at all - most religions seem to be pretty exclusive of all other types of faith, and these so-called spiritual leaders should be humbled by Pi's simple and meaningful love for God. I thought his parents' reaction was also pretty funny, like "how on earth did this happen to one of our kids?!". I thought his mom's attempt to get him interested in literature instead of a prayer rug was pretty pathetic!

I also liked how the two Mr. Kumars came together before the end of Part I - as you pointed out, Whitewarrior, these two men clearly stand for what's most important in Pi's life, the coming together of reason and spirituality. As for the carrot, I think Martel deliberately wanted to keep his reader in the dark (or semi-obscurity ) by not revealing which Mr. Kumar doesn't let go of the carrot at first and which one lets it go easily. So we sort of have an idea that either religion or science will come to Pi more easily, and that he will have to work harder to attain the other, but we don't know which one is which yet. Does that make sense?

[whitewarrior]

haha, no need to be sorry, lu. That's one of the greatest things about literary works like this - they're completely open to interpretation. I am glad that you agree with me, though, Jefie. I think the zebra and whatever he is supposed to respresent to Pi is going to become increasingly important.