Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
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Post by Kristie on Aug 22, 2010 12:59:00 GMT -5
We will be discussing The View from Castle Rock by Alice Munro.
As the book is made up of two parts, we'll be discussing each part individually. Here is the schedule for discussion: Part 1: August 22nd Part 2: September 3rd
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Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
Posts: 7,214
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Post by Kristie on Aug 22, 2010 16:28:59 GMT -5
So far, View from Castle Rock has been pretty interesting to me. The fact that Munro is using fictional short stories all compiled into this one book to describe her own family’s history intrigues me. As I love history, I often enjoy historical fiction, of which these short stories have an element. For all I know about Munro, it’s possible that these stories are more truth than fiction–even the locations of where the narrator grew up make her sound like Munro, as described in the back of the book jacket.
Each story so far has progressed by generation, up until the last story of the part in which the narrator (no name given yet) has been largely involved. The very first story, “No Advantages,” was my least favorite story so far. I was, to be blunt, utterly bored with this story. It is the farthest back in history, before Scotland became part of Great Britain (if I remember correctly). I actually fell asleep twice while reading this story–and I wasn’t reading them at bed time I was just THAT bored. The tales of the narrator’s great-great-great-great-grandfather, Will O’Phaup (Will of Far Hope), and his run-ins with witches and feats of long distance running were few, but the most interesting part of the story.
Thank god I remembered this book is compiled of SHORT STORIES. If it hadn’t been, I would have put the book down for good because of the first story. But, short stories aren’t always similar, so I decided to give the second story, “The View from Castle Rock,” a try. And it has been my favorite so far, with the narrator’s family coming from Scotland to Canada. And this I enjoyed most because it had that sweet, lovable character, Walter
A passage that I particularly enjoyed was found in “Working for a Living”: the story the narrator herself begins telling the whole story of her father.
He [the narrator's father] would die leaving a sick crippled wife who could not even take care of herself, an old mother full of disappointment, a younger daughter whose health had always been delicate, an older girl who was strong and bright enough but who often seemed to be self-centered and mysteriously incompetent, a son who promised to be clever and reliable but who was still only a little boy…
“Was that all you thought about?” I said when he told me this.
“Wasn’t that enough?” he said, and went on to tell me how he pulled one leg out of the snow, and then the other: he got out of that drift and…He got home.
The reason I like this passage is because it seems to show us the different views on dying, as thought by two different generations. This difference in view could be because of the ages of the father and narrator; but it might also have something to do with the way both were brought up and lived their lives. Interestingly enough, the father calls the narrator a “self-centered and mysteriously incompetent” girl in the first paragraph I quoted. This is immediately proven by her asking, essentially, why he didn’t think anything of himself when he might be dying.
I have to admit that, I think that I would sort of ask the same thing the narrator does. I mean, yes, it might be a little self-centered to wonder how one could not think of himself/herself when about to die. If I was in a situation in which I could soon die, I think I would first think of all of the stuff I’d be missing out on. This, in turn, would lead me to think of Nick (my fiance) because most of those things I haven’t done yet include him as well. And, if I had children, I’m sure they might pop in there too–all the things I didn’t get to do with them. But these all include me! I wouldn’t think of only Nick or our future children–I would think of them and myself.
This could explain why the narrator and her father disagree. He has a wife, a mother, and children–she has none of those things. So is it natural for her to think of herself, since she might not have such a strong bond to any other human? And is it natural for him to think of everyone else but himself because he worries for their futures and not necessarily (like me) what he will miss with them? I think I’d be more willing to feel the same emotions as the father if I have lived to older age and my children are all old/experienced enough to have me not need to worry about what I will miss with them–if my children have children, I would just worry about them doing right by there children, I guess.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Aug 22, 2010 20:17:14 GMT -5
I just got bak home and had absolutely no time to read while I was away - I'll do my best to catch up soon!
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Lu
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Post by Lu on Aug 24, 2010 6:43:00 GMT -5
Good post, Kristie! I have to admit I felt the same about the first story No Advantages, and I'm glad I kept reading because I really enjoyed the other ones. The View from Castle Rock is one my favourites. I really liked the description of their climbing Edinburgh's Castle Rock at the beginning of the story, told from Andrew's point of view. I also found very interesting the description of the Laidlaws' travel to America. As Kristie, I really like Walter. "There are too many people" his father continues. "The ship will sink." "No," says Walter, speaking up now. "Ships do not often sink because of too many people. That's what the fellow was there for, to count people." Barely on board the vessel and this seventeen-year-old whelp has taken on knowing airs, he has taken to contradicting his father. I wonder why James Laidlaw, who had wanted all his life to go to America, seems to regret leaving his native land after boarding the ship. I wonder if the author calls him Old James only to differentiate him from Agnes and Andrew's son, or if that's a way to connect him to their native land. (I'm not sure it makes sense..). In Illinois and The Wilds of Morris Township I started to get a bit confused with family members and I sometimes have to stop and reread some passages. I enjoyed reading how they set off for "another wilderness" and how they settled there. At the end of this story, the author says her father wondered at his father's cousins: "To think of what their ancestor did", he said. "The nerve it took, to pick up and cross the ocean. What was it squashed their spirits? So soon." I think this question is a good introduction to the story about the author's father Working for a Living. I've already finished reading this book and writing this post I've just realized that it's really hard for me to pick a favourite story. I've also tried to write without thinking of the second part.
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Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
Posts: 7,214
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Post by Kristie on Aug 26, 2010 11:35:45 GMT -5
I do like the part where the men climb Castle Rock to look out across the water to find America. I have been to Castle Rock and, perhaps there was a 100-200 year difference, I could not easily see the ocean Too many (beautiful) buildings in the way. But I thought it was interesting that the narrator mentioned the island they were really viewing was part of Scotland and they weren't even close to seeing the United States
I think your Old James bit makes sense, Lu. It's possible that the author meant to connect Old James to Scotland and the new James, born at sea, to America. I also thought it was a little odd that Old James was a bit apprehensive to leave. But, maybe he was worried that it wouldn't be as easy as he thought or that he just might miss Scotland once he's gone.
I, too, got a little confused with family members. Especially since it seems the same 5 names are used for boys across the generations. So I can't help but try to figure out what generation they belong in.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Aug 31, 2010 6:01:17 GMT -5
I'm slowly catching up with you guys! I just finished reading the first two stories and I have to say, so far I think this book is brilliant! First, I really like Munro's style. It's simple but very elegant, and I think its lack of pretentiousness makes it very effective. Second, like you Kristie, I love history and I also take a keen interest in genealogy. I don't know much about where my ancestors come from other than they were from France, and probably came over from Normandy at some point during the 18th century. I would love to find out more about what brought them over here! So I think what Munro does in her book is very creative, using old family letters as a starting point and then filling in the blanks with whatever story she imagines might have happened. I'm really looking forward to reading more of the book! I wonder if the author calls him Old James only to differentiate him from Agnes and Andrew's son, or if that's a way to connect him to their native land. (I'm not sure it makes sense..). I hadn't thought about it but that's a really interesting point, especially given how Canadians (and I'm guessing Americans) used to refer to Europe as the "Old World" or "Old Continent". At this point, I'm also not sure why Old James changed his attitude towards moving to Canada, although at the end of the second story, he does mention in a letter that he had hoped to bring all of his family with him and was upset that two of his sons had chosen to stay behind...
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Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
Posts: 7,214
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Post by Kristie on Sept 6, 2010 9:14:44 GMT -5
In this second part, I especially liked the "Hired Girl" story. I could relate to Munro (narrator) because I, too, have had summer jobs. Munro worked as a maid in an affluent home for the summer. While I've never had this particular job, I have babysat/chauffeured for some rich kids (that's the closest I've been to Munro's job). Munro was happy with her job because it did show her something of the world outside her small town. I always thought it would have been cool to work on a cruise ship as a summer job. It would have allowed me to travel more and see a little more outside of my very small world. But, unfortunately, I did my summer job on top of my normal year-round job so I couldn't just quit.
I also liked the "What Do You Want to Know For?" story. I liked how Munro would insert news about her possible breast cancer intermittently throughout the story. It was kind of like saying, "I'm old. I've lived my life. I'll just go on with my everyday routines." She even said this, in so many words:
"I am over sixty. My death would not be a disaster. Not in comparison with the death of a younger mother, a family wage-earner, a child. It would not be apparent as a disaster." (p323)
And what sorts of things did Munro do when she was not thinking about her situation?
"I filled my time by answering letters and cleaning up my house and going through my files and having people to dinner. It was a surprise to me that I was busying myself in this way instead of thinking about any deeper matters." (p317)
On second reading of this quote, I see how these sorts of things could sort of be seen as Munro is wrapping her life up, getting things together, and taking care of anything unfinished. But, I can also see these things as those of everyday daily life. They can be used as a distraction from really thinking. So, I wonder what Munro meant of these things. Was it my first or second impression?
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Sept 8, 2010 7:59:51 GMT -5
Just going back to the first part and our discussion about all the characters named James, I thought it was interesting that in the story "Illinois", Jamie is the one who truly resents being uprooted to another country. It brought back to mind the fact that Old James wasn't so keen on moving once he got on that boat, and I also thought about how Young James died almost as soon as he reached America. Perhaps it's just a coincidence, but it's almost like moving doesn't agree with the James Laidlaws...
I still have two more stories to read in the second part of the book, but one thing that seems obvious is that the stories don't seem to be all that fictional - perhaps embellished a little (we see in the story "Hired Girl" when she writes to her friend that she was already good at turning reality into fiction), but still close enough to the truth. One thing I thought was pretty interesting is that Munro gives the first names of all her ancestors, but when the story gets closer to home, unless I'm mistaken, she only talks about "grand-father", "grand-mother", "father" and "mother". Also, when she mentions her first husband she calls him Michael, but in real life her first husband's name was James (yes, another James!). Everything else seems pretty close to the truth (she did get married in 1951 and moved to Vancouver with her husband), but somehow she felt the need to change his name.
The story I could relate to the most was "Home" because I too had to take care of my dad when he got sick and eventually had to have bypass surgery, and also because the character of Irlma reminds me of my dad's wife very, very much! Alice seems to be annoyed with her sometimes because of how blunt Irmla can be and because she's obviously not the sharpest tool in the shed, but then she's forced to recognize that Irlma loves her father very much, perhaps more than her mother ever did (and perhaps more than she herself ever loved her first husband), and in his old age that's the most important thing.
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Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
Posts: 7,214
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Post by Kristie on Sept 8, 2010 21:07:45 GMT -5
Second, like you Kristie, I love history and I also take a keen interest in genealogy. I don't know much about where my ancestors come from other than they were from France, and probably came over from Normandy at some point during the 18th century. I would love to find out more about what brought them over here! I know my great-great-grandparents came to the US from Germany. And my Mom is a member of the Daughters of the American Revolution (DAR), which means that we had some ancestors in the US during the American Revolution (1770s) and probably before that. I love researching family history, and I think I will really pick it up when I get older and have more free time I wonder if the author calls him Old James only to differentiate him from Agnes and Andrew's son, or if that's a way to connect him to their native land. (I'm not sure it makes sense..). I hadn't thought about it but that's a really interesting point, especially given how Canadians (and I'm guessing Americans) used to refer to Europe as the "Old World" or "Old Continent". At this point, I'm also not sure why Old James changed his attitude towards moving to Canada, although at the end of the second story, he does mention in a letter that he had hoped to bring all of his family with him and was upset that two of his sons had chosen to stay behind... Yes, Isa: We also call Europe or European countries the Old World in the US I don't know if we really used that term much before the massive immigration between the 1850s-1910s. At that point, a lot of "fresh off the boat" immigrants referred to the Old Country.
And I had forgotten that some of his sons stayed in Scotland--it would certainly explain why, at almost the last minute, he seemed to waiver in his decision.
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Kristie
Novel turned into BBC miniseries
"If a book is well written, I always find it too short."
Posts: 7,214
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Post by Kristie on Sept 8, 2010 21:15:53 GMT -5
Just going back to the first part and our discussion about all the characters named James, I thought it was interesting that in the story "Illinois", Jamie is the one who truly resents being uprooted to another country. It brought back to mind the fact that Old James wasn't so keen on moving once he got on that boat, and I also thought about how Young James died almost as soon as he reached America. Perhaps it's just a coincidence, but it's almost like moving doesn't agree with the James Laidlaws... Haha, I hadn't really made that connection. But it's very coincidental! I still have two more stories to read in the second part of the book, but one thing that seems obvious is that the stories don't seem to be all that fictional - perhaps embellished a little (we see in the story "Hired Girl" when she writes to her friend that she was already good at turning reality into fiction), but still close enough to the truth. One thing I thought was pretty interesting is that Munro gives the first names of all her ancestors, but when the story gets closer to home, unless I'm mistaken, she only talks about "grand-father", "grand-mother", "father" and "mother". Also, when she mentions her first husband she calls him Michael, but in real life her first husband's name was James (yes, another James!). Everything else seems pretty close to the truth (she did get married in 1951 and moved to Vancouver with her husband), but somehow she felt the need to change his name. I had wondered what her husband's real name was, as I knew the stories were supposed to be slightly auto-biographical in nature. The book jacket said that they were pretty memoir-ish stories. Which is one reason I really liked them. They weren't actually too exciting--pretty "normal life" sort of stories. A lot like my own life, so it was really relatable.
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Lu
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Post by Lu on Sept 9, 2010 16:28:51 GMT -5
While reading the stories of the second part, which is more centered on Munro's life, I kept wondering how much she invented and how much is from her real life. I don't know why but I got more curious about that, more than I was when reading the first section of stories. I didn't know her husband name was James perhaps calling him with his real name would be too confusing, lol ;D ANOTHER James! I'm slowly catching up with you guys! I just finished reading the first two stories and I have to say, so far I think this book is brilliant! First, I really like Munro's style. It's simple but very elegant, and I think its lack of pretentiousness makes it very effective. I agree about the style, Isa. Your comment made me realize what it is that I liked so much of Munro's style, lack of pretentiousness and elegance. I wonder if the author calls him Old James only to differentiate him from Agnes and Andrew's son, or if that's a way to connect him to their native land. (I'm not sure it makes sense..). I hadn't thought about it but that's a really interesting point, especially given how Canadians (and I'm guessing Americans) used to refer to Europe as the "Old World" or "Old Continent". At this point, I'm also not sure why Old James changed his attitude towards moving to Canada, although at the end of the second story, he does mention in a letter that he had hoped to bring all of his family with him and was upset that two of his sons had chosen to stay behind... I hadn't thought about the fact that Americans call Europe the Old World. In this second part, I especially liked the "Hired Girl" story. I could relate to Munro (narrator) because I, too, have had summer jobs. You know, Kristie, I really liked the story Hired Girl for the same reason. My summer job is very different from Munro's (especially because it doesn't allow me to travel and see more of the world) but I could definitely relate with her. Just going back to the first part and our discussion about all the characters named James, I thought it was interesting that in the story "Illinois", Jamie is the one who truly resents being uprooted to another country. It brought back to mind the fact that Old James wasn't so keen on moving once he got on that boat, and I also thought about how Young James died almost as soon as he reached America. Perhaps it's just a coincidence, but it's almost like moving doesn't agree with the James Laidlaws... Haha, I hadn't really made that connection. But it's very coincidental! I hadn't made that connection either I'm interested in my family history too and I'm happy when my parents or grandparents talk about it. (I recently found out of a mysterious great-uncle of my dad, apparently he kind of run away from home about a century ago and nobody heard of him since.) I know that all my grandparents are from Italy. Well, actually my grandma's family lived in Austria before WWI, they never moved from their small village...just the borders changed.
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Isa
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Post by Isa on Sept 14, 2010 6:47:47 GMT -5
I'm finally done with the book! I must admit that it took me a while to get through the last story (What do you want to know for?) and it was by far my least favourite. I thought there were too many details and what I had enjoyed about Munro's style thus far, its simplicity and elegance, was completely gone from that story. I understand how she moves back and forth between the story about her cancer and the one about the crypt, and I believe the story about the crypt is meant to make the reader stall, the way her own life was put on hold when they found a lump in her breast and she had to fill her days somehow - in that sense, it's pretty well done. However, I thought it wasn't the best way to end a book that had been thoroughly enjoyable up to that point. Other than that, I'm really glad we picked this book for the discussion!
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